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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Here's a starting point for MVC expansion talk...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Well there are 3 options in my mind here.

1. Stay the same at 10
2. Add St.Louis & Butler
3. Add NDSU & SDSU

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:45 am 
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It seems that if St. Louis wanted to be in the MVC, they would have gone there in 2005 instead of the A-10. I think the MVC should grab Butler, perhaps just by themselves to go to 11, or maybe with someone like Oral Roberts.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:56 pm 
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The real question is what does the MVC want to be? Choices are;

1. A conference that has a fixed teams for all sports (ex FB) and affiliate members for football. Similar to the current MVC structure as well as the CAA and the Northeast conference.

ACTION ITEM – Dump affiliate YSU where they go I don’t know. Add affiliate UND and USD which will force them to move to the Summit league from the Great West. For all sport (Ex FB).

2. An all sport league that has 16 teams that play all sports but only 10 that play football. Like the Big East. This will never happen as it will water down MVC Basketball.

3. A split takes place between FB and Non FB schools. Which takes the MVC name is a toss-up.

FB Schools (Public): Indiana State, Illinois State, Missouri State UNI, SIU. Affiliates SDSU, WIU, NDSU join full time. Affiliate YSU gets dumped. UND and USD join from the Great West. 10 schools. WSU stays with this group for all sports except FB.

BB Schools (Private): Bradley, Creighton, Drake and Evansville. Add Butler, St. Louis, Detroit, Loyola , Valpo, Oral Roberts maybe the University of Denver.

The Horizon would then raid the Summitt just like it did in 1994.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Great question. With the football sponsorship now, there are now only 4 members not in the MVC for all sports: NSDU, SDSU, WIU (Summit) and YSU (Horizon).

Not that they need football members, but adding NDSU and SDSU would boost the all-sports membership. All 4 schools above are state schools. So the MVC is similar to the Big East with a split of private vs state schools, but a smaller size with , well, less drama.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I'd leave FCS football to the Summit League and decide make a stated goal of getting to FBS. The region is ripe for another FBS Conference, and you can keep 3-4 privates around for basketball tradition and auto-bid compliance.

My FBS Missouri Valley (around 2020) would comprise of the following:

North Dakota State/South Dakota State
Tulsa/Missouri State
Creighton (non-football member)/Wichita State
Illinois State/Southern Illinois
Indiana State (non-football member)/Evansville (non-football member)
Northern Iowa/Drake (non-football member)

Bradley heads to the Horizon League, who could add Saint Louis if they needed a twelfth member. Two of Indiana State, Evansville, Creighton, and Drake could be replaced by North Dakota and South Dakota depending on who makes it to FBS.

Tulsa gets a much more rational travel footprint than in Conference USA, and their new home has an excellent basketball profile (Tulsa won the MVC Tournament in 1996). Conference USA should have no trouble finding a willing replacement for Tulsa.

The Summit consolidates the football operations from the leftovers and guts the Great West:

Utah Valley/Southern Utah*
Denver/Oral Roberts
Centenary/UMKC
North Dakota*/South Dakota*
Western Illinois*/IUPUI
IPFW/Oakland
(football only: Cal Poly SLO*, UC Davis*, Youngstown State*)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:33 pm 
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FBS MVC (*no fb)
N.Iowa
S.Illinois
Illinois St.
Missouri St.
N.Dakota St.
S.Dakota St.
Indiana St.
N.Dakota
S.Dakota
Wichita St.*
Creighton*
Drake*

I can't see this happening either. Indiana St. would be the worst FBS school ever. W.Illinois should try to get Indiana St. to leave the MVC for the Summit. (won't happen)
Bradley & Evansville join the Horizon

Tulsa wouldn't leave C-USA for that conf. even if the bball is good, fb is the driving force of D-I.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:49 am 
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Here's my thought on where the MVC and Summit might go:

Summit loses Southern Utah to Big Sky and Centenary to somewhere.
Summit adds North Dakota and South Dakota

North Dakota *
North Dakota State *
South Dakota *
South Dakota State *
Western Illinois *
Oral Roberts
UMKC
Oakland
IPFW
IUPUI

* indicates FCS Scholarship Football


MVC stays the same or could possibly add basketball schools like SLU / Butler / whomever...

Northern Iowa *
Missouri State *
Illinois State *
Southern Illinois -Carbondale *
Indiana State *
Evansville
Bradley
Drake
Wichita State
Creighton

* indicates FCS Scholarship Football



MVFC (Missouri Valley Football Conference)

MVFC loses Youngstown State (Horizon League, lets assume they go to the MAC / FBS)
MVFC adds North Dakota and South Dakota
Now MVFC contains 5 FB schools from Summit and 5 FB schools from MVC:

North Dakota (Summit)
North Dakota State (Summit)
South Dakota (Summit)
South Dakota State (Summit)
Northern Iowa (MVC)
Missouri State (MVC)
Illinois State (MVC)
Western Illinois (Summit)
Southern Illinois - Carbondale (MVC)
Indiana State (MVC)

That's a nice regional FB conference, and it doesn't take much to get there.
I'm betting the first part of this movement happens soon.... North Dakota and South Dakota being invited to the Summit as soon as their transition to D-I is complete.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:04 pm 
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I brought this up in the Southland thread, what if Missouri State and Wichita State left the MVC to join the breakaway schools from the Southland to form a new FBS conference? You would have something like this:

From the SLC:
UT-San Antonio *
Texas State *
Sam Houston *
Lamar *
Central Arkansas *
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

From the MVC:
Missouri State *
Wichita State

From the WAC:
La Tech *
New Mexico State *

From the Summit:
Oral Roberts

* football schools

That's 11 schools, 8 playing FBS football, and maybe Wichita State would be inclined to start football and jump quickly to FBS. With room for one more school, they could possible get Denver or New Orleans, maybe another MVC basketball school like Creighton to join. This would be a strong basketball and baseball conference and they would have a basketball autobid from day one. This also gives the league some medium to large markets with a footprint similar to the Big 12.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:29 pm 
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centexguy wrote:
I brought this up in the Southland thread, what if Missouri State and Wichita State left the MVC to join the breakaway schools from the Southland to form a new FBS conference? You would have something like this:

From the SLC:
UT-San Antonio *
Texas State *
Sam Houston *
Lamar *
Central Arkansas *
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

From the MVC:
Missouri State *
Wichita State

From the WAC:
La Tech *
New Mexico State *

From the Summit:
Oral Roberts

* football schools

That's 11 schools, 8 playing FBS football, and maybe Wichita State would be inclined to start football and jump quickly to FBS. With room for one more school, they could possible get Denver or New Orleans, maybe another MVC basketball school like Creighton to join. This would be a strong basketball and baseball conference and they would have a basketball autobid from day one. This also gives the league some medium to large markets with a footprint similar to the Big 12.



The problem with ideas like this or other new conferences is the system.
* If it were a playoff and there were autobids they'd get, then sure. But there's the BCS: if you aren't in it, you're not going to have access to the big payouts.
* Bowls: bowls are lossly associated with schools, especially those considered lesser bowls. For instance, the Humanitarianism Bowl is associated with the WAC due to BSU. The Las Vegas Bowl with the MWC due to UNLV. So when a school brings a bowl to the table, it makes for better opportunity. Right now, the sunbelt struggles to get multiple bowls. This new conference would be in an even worse boat initially.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:11 am 
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Tute:

I really liked the detail you put to my option 1. I too think this is the way things will go until the Big East split (FB/non-FB) which will ripple to the A10, Horizon and MVC. Then the fun will begin.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Northern Iowa is the only school in the MVC that could handle a move to I-A, I don't see anyone else (especially Indiana State) ready to go. If Tressell hadn't gotten the OSU job, I think Youngstown State would be in the MAC right now. Barring UNI leaving, the only changes I can see would be adding Butler and someone else who would improve their basketball profile... if UNI leaves they might pick up the Dakota States along with Butler (NDSU=solid men's hoops, SDSU=solid women's hoops).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:31 am 
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Tute- the first shoe has dropped, South Dakota to the summit. Next will be North Dakota resolving their name and they too will join the summit.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:42 pm 
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South Dakota has accepted an invitation to the Summit, but it doesn't take effect for 2 more years.
I originally thought that the timing had to do with ascendancey to Div. 1, but actually it appears that the timing (mid-2011), is due to South Dakota having made a 3-year commitment to the Great West.

If you believe that, then North Dakota must likely have a 3-year commitment to the Great West ending at the same time.

So the Summit put the wheels in motion, and North Dakota now will want to either get permission to remain "the Fighting Sioux" or switch to something like an animal species ASAP (meaning within the next 12 months, I should think). As soon as that happens, Douple and the Summit will likely call up to schedule the obligatory campus visit (as though nobody in the conference has ever been to North Dakota), and then the invitation usually follows about 2 weeks later. North Dakota will of course immediately accept.

Both schools ultimately would like to be in the same football conference with NDSU and SDSU and Northern Iowa. Right now they are all in the MVFC. The simplest way to make that happen, would be for the MVFC to expand to 11 or 12, and take them in. However the MVFC is at 9 right now, and do they want 11 or 12 teams ? It may come down to the members' perceptions of how the expansion would effect their chances at getting into the FCS playoffs. Obviously it makes the chances of winning the MVFC's champion's automatic bid that much tougher, HOWEVER, this move may prevent the Great West from getting an automatic bid, and leaving an extra at-large out there for everyone....

The FCS championship playoffs are expanding to 20 (10 auto-bids + 10 at-large = 8 teams do a play-in for 4 slots, 4 others play those winners, and 8 others get first-round BYES)... In short order, everyone sees this expanding to 24 (no less than 12 at-large, and up to 12 auto-bids = 16 teams playing 8 first-round games and 8 first round BYES)...

If Youngstown State (the only non-MVC, no-Summit team) left the MVFC with 8 teams, I think North Dakota and South Dakota would be added to go to 10, and they could play a 9-game round robin. But if they stay at 9, expansion to 11 teams is awkward, and I think the MVFC would hesitate before adding Southern Utah as #12, since they are such an out-lier, geographically. You could add them and go to divisions, but the FCS really doesn't lend itself to conference championship games. I think 10 (current - YSU + ND + SD) would be perfect. Once you invite Southern Utah, how do you ever get rid of them (other than beg the Big Sky to take them) ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Maybe the MVFC should kick out the Summit schools (NDSU, SDSU, WIU)-they still keep their automatic bid with 6 schools-and then the 4 Dakota schools, WIU, SUU, and the two California Great West schools can play Summit football. The Summit can get its own automatic bid.


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