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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:25 am 
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I frequent another message board, and for 10+ years I've talked college hoops in an OT forum with another poster. He's a die-hard Syracuse fan. I hate Syracuse with an intense loathing.

A third party brought up the idea of Syracuse going independent. Since anything I say will be taken as a "because of your hatred of Syracuse, you can't admit how valuable a commodity Syracuse is," I thought I would post his statement here, just step away and let you guys discuss it. PLEASE, I implore you, respond with your unbiased thoughts.

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Despite what JP would lead you to believe Syracuse does have some advantages in going independent and I have long thought we should.

Park non-revenue sports in one of the in-state conferences and go independent in football, basketball, lacrosse. Syracuse would have a bowl tie-in with the PinStripe Bowl and already has a number of games scheduled at the meadowlands (USC, Penn State, Notre Dame). Rumors of Army and Miami looking for NYC opponents...Cuse could easily fill this void if they no longer had to play duds like Cincy & Louisville. We still have a decade long contract with Boston College already and deals with Notre Dame (4 games) and Penn State (3 games). Pittsburgh and West Virginia would continue to play us...we would be absolutely fine.

Basketball is where we would make a ton of money. The world already hates the fact that we do not have to leave the state of NY in the first two months of the season and we make a mint. All we really need is to sign up games against teams the fans want to see...Gtown, Uconn, Pitt, Nova, Boston College, Notre Dame, etc. If last year proved anything it was that winning conference titles/tournaments does not mean s*** anymore so why bother being in one?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:38 am 
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Sure, they could. Just like Air Force, UNLV of any other MWC schools can (since they have the WAC to join for basketball), as well as ECU (they might be able to get back in CAA, join SoCon), UCF (would have some basketball options), ANY CUSA school in Texas (join WAC for hoops). And just like any other Big East football school because they'd have the Big East for basketball.

But why bother? Syracuse is currently in an 8 team Big East. They have 4 games a year against schools they'd play regardless: Uconn, Pitt, Rutgers, WVU. The other 3 games work as well: Louisville, Cincy...and then USF (gives SU a game in the recruiting hotbed).

Syracuse then gets to schedule 4-5 OOC games. There's no reason for Syracuse to consider independence when they haven't done crap with their 4-5 OOC games each year. Yes, BC this year as well as Washington. But Akron? Maine? Colgate? If these are the schools syracuse is scheduling while in the Big East, can you imagine how bad it would be as an independent?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:30 am 
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I'd hate to say it, but I think Syracuse is just biding its time until Boeheim moves onto greener pastures. He has been very outspoken about where the school should be, and he's kept Syracuse in a good place for his program to thrive. Presently, basketball and lacrosse are what work for the school, and its football identity virtually died in two parts: when Penn State left the unaffiliated group of North Atlantic football schools, and when the best part of the old Big East (UM, VT, and BC) bolted for the ACC. Syracuse was certainly left behind in that regard, and it shows. But it has a rich legacy as a winning program in football, and one of the best at that.

Syracuse doesn't need the Big East for football. It needs it for basketball. And it needs to be near the urban Catholic schools in the conference (St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, and DePaul) in order for it to remain relevant in courting top-notch recruits.

What it needs in football is its regional ties to return. This means playing *some* (not all) of the Big East schools (Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, and UConn), but also Temple, Boston College, Miami, VT, Penn State, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia, Army, and Navy with frequency. We know why it can't happen presently, but it's what this program needs to remain viable, competitive, and worthwhile. Unfortunately, if conferences expand even further, OOC slates will only suffer, and certain rivalries will be most definitely doomed.

I suspect that when Boeheim retires, the school will lobby hard for Big Ten and ACC membership and take whatever comes first.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:21 pm 
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Faux King of Bish wrote:
I suspect that when Boeheim retires, the school will lobby hard for Big Ten and ACC membership and take whatever comes first.


The problem is that neither of those conferences have much of an incentive to invite Syracuse at this point. With the amount that the Big Ten is making with its new championship game and what will likely be a significant increase with its next TV contract, each new school will need to bring in at least $30 million in annual new revenue. I don't even know if Notre Dame could bring that much (not that the Big Ten wouldn't still take them) - Texas is really the only one left that could bring that much alone.

The ACC, if anything, has continuously overachieved with its TV deals, which means that they also have little incentive to expand without a big name involved.

As with any expansion discussion, it takes two to tango. Just because Syracuse wants to sell itself to another conference doesn't mean that anyone else is buying on the other end.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:34 pm 
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frankthetank wrote:
The ACC, if anything, has continuously overachieved with its TV deals, which means that they also have little incentive to expand without a big name involved.


If being the 15th winningest major college football program (20th overall) and one of the most represented schools in the NFL HoF doesn't make you "big," then I don't know what will.

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As with any expansion discussion, it takes two to tango. Just because Syracuse wants to sell itself to another conference doesn't mean that anyone else is buying on the other end.


This doesn't do justice to the kind of weight Boeheim pulls at that school, and he isn't fond of all this realignment. For the ACC, Syracuse brings exactly what they want. The football is competitive enough for the bottom half of the league, and the basketball and lacrosse sell themselves. Syracuse football may not draw NYC, but its basketball does.

Granted, I think there's more to the school's mobility post-Boeheim. I doubt the school would sink a dagger into its basketball if the Big East doesn't collapse into a football/non-football break, separating the Orange from St. John's and Georgetown, but if that super conference collapses, what's keeping Syracuse to the small Catholic schools?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:03 am 
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Also worth noting the boost in prestige being in a better conference is for a school. Look at USF. In CUSA, it was a solid job for both football and basketball. After the move to the bE, it meant better coach candidates. syracuse in the Big ten would be the same. All of a sudden, they'd have a more impressive candidate pool for football coaches, like top assistants in the Big Ten or rising coaches in perhaps even the ACC.


As for the ACC, they have expressed little interest in proactive expansion. They just got a big new TV deal, so splitting that revenue by more mouths needs to be justified. It will be tough to renegotiate just months after a new deal, even if bringing in large market potential schools Rutgers and syracuse.


For the record, I actually favor the ACC expanding to the north rather than the big Ten to the East. Schools like Uconn, syracuse, Rutgers and even Pitt & WVU make more sense for me personally in the ACC.

I'd just prefer to see the Big Ten get a Notre Dame and Missouri and the ACC expand to 14 with Syracuse and Rutgers or 16 with those two and Uconn and WVU.

for football:
North:BC, Uconn, syracuse, Rutgers, WVU, Maryland, VA Tech, UVA
South: UNC, Duke, WFU, NCstate, Clemson, GA Tech, FSU, Miami

And basketball, that's a strong conference.


I eman, if the big East can do it with 16 for basketball, the ACc certainly could by adding two fo the better Big east programs in Uconn and Syracuse.

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