Grid Updates and Discussion Board

mizzoufan1 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:51 am **Posts:** 96

You can basically eliminate the MAAC Football part of the grid. It is dead. Too bad about Iona dropping football.

Is there any possible way of cleaning up the grid a bit...is seems a little messy right now...

cfnap · **Joined:** Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:14 pm **Posts:** 2

Found a few teams whose descriptions need to be corrected:

Quote:

Colorado--Stable and content in the Big 12. Was approached by the PAC 10 during the 90s regarding expansion (along with Texas) but did not make the move. If approached again, perhaps they would listen. They would provide the PAC 10 access to the Denver market, which would fit nicely into their current domination of the LA, Phoenix, San Fran, Portland, Seattle markets.

If by market, you are talking about TV markets, then the PAC 10 does not have a presence in the Portland market (#23). The two Oregon schools are in the Eugene market (#120, smallest in the PAC 10).

Quote:

Missouri--Stable and content but considered a top candidate for invitation into the Big Ten should Notre Dame turn it down again. Pittsburgh has gained some favor for the 12th spot, but Missouri would give the Midwest league the St. Louis market, while Pitt would not add anything that Penn State hasn’t already.

Missouri is not in the St. Louis market (market #21) but is a part of the Columbia market (#137). The St. Louis market does not have any football teams in Division I football.

Quote:

East Carolina--Provides near top 25 caliber football but little for basketball and virtually no market. Recent 2007 rumblings have a CUSA split into an eastern conference and a new Southwest Conference.

Out of 210 TV markets, East Carolina is in market #105, smack in the middle. That is not quite "no market". FSU, Penn State, Nebraska, and Florida are all in smaller markets.

brewpoke · **Posted:** Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:24 pm

So out of the entire college football landscape, only Wyoming needs to focus on mythical "new IA criteria?" Please for the love of God make UW stable in your grid. How come Utah State and New Mexico State and Idaho are comfortable/stable, but the 'Pokes aren't?? IA doesn't even exist anymore as an appellation, so I suspect this is an oversight.

finiteman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:04 pm

brewpoke wrote:

So out of the entire college football landscape, only Wyoming needs to focus on mythical "new IA criteria?" Please for the love of God make UW stable in your grid. How come Utah State and New Mexico State and Idaho are comfortable/stable, but the 'Pokes aren't?? IA doesn't even exist anymore as an appellation, so I suspect this is an oversight.

Come on Quinn! Throw the guy a bone~!

Seriously, we have been talking about FBS criteria for almost a decade and the attendance rules have never been enforced. Wyoming's lousy football attendance may be something that the power universities look at in saying that the MWC shouldn't be in the BCS, but it isn't anything that appears will ever truly be an issue with the NCAA costing them FBS status.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3756

LastMinuteman wrote:

3. In the grid comments, you're frequently using "BCS" when you mean "FBS". BCS only refers to the 6 BCS conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big XII, PAC-10 and SEC. FBS is the Football Bowl Subdivision, including all the former Division IA teams. I would take a school "considering a BCS move" to mean considering moving from FCS to a BCS conference, an extremely unlikely invitation for anyone to receive except Villanova.

Yes, just a mistype for each instance.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3756

Some more updates and cleanup done today. I like to keep the original content from the past to show the various moves by a school...it just needed to be cleaned up some.

Any new FCS to FBS candidates to add?
What about D2 to D1?

Let me know...

http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference ... nment-grid

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:26 pm

Quinn, I posted what I know about these schools you have here and added some

UM - St. Louis (big school but have you heard anything about a move?)
Division 2
Almost ready to upgrade to D1 and scheduling tougher opponents.
North Alabama (Doing a D-I study)
Division 2
Could upgrade to Division 1, FCS and look to the Big South, OVC or even Southland.
U Incarnate Word (Found a home in the LSC so they won't be moving to D-I)
Division 2
The southern school could upgrade to D-1 in the future
Delta St. (Haven't heard anything but they are a good school)
Division 2
The southern school could upgrade to FCS in the future and would look conferences such as the Southland.
Ohio Central St. (School is called Central St. and no way no how are they anywhere near able to move to D-I)
Division 2
Could upgrade to FCS and seek membership in the OVC
UA-Huntsville (Have D-I hockey but haven't heard anything)
Division 2
Could upgrade to Division 1
West Georgia (Is trying to get enrollment up and fixing their stadium to move up)
Division 2
Considering upgrade to Division 1 and likely head to the Atlantic Sun. (Big South)
Central Oklahoma (got passed over last time the SLC expanded)
Division 2
Considering upgrade to Division 1.
Indiana University - PA (announced they are not ready for D-I after doing a study)
Division 2
While no timetable has been set, IUP is preparing for a jump to Division 1 and FCS football.

No. Kentucky (Built a new arena and has been rumored to move up, OVC?)

Division 2
Considering upgrade to Division 1.
Oklahoma City University (was all set to move up but missed the deadline before the moratorium, GWC?, Summit?)
NAIA
Considering an upgrade to Division 1. Will probably seek membership in the Southland, Summit or other conferences but likely participate as an independent.
Kentucky St. (Can't see them moving up at all either)
Division 2
Could upgrade to FCS and seek membership in the OVC
CSU-Pueblo (I've heard nothing about them moving up)
Division 2
Looking to add football and could consider upgrade
Grand Valley St (They should but have big fish in small pool thing going for them)
Division 2
an ugrpade candidate
Nebraska - Omaha (considered it when the NCC broke up but found a home in the MIAA)
Division 2
an ugrpade candidate
Lemoyne (Doing a study on a move to D-I)
Division 2
Looking to upgrade to DI. America East could be their new home.
Harding (Don't see this one happening at all either)
Division 2
Could upgrade
(Tarleton St. was passed over by the SLC, they then came up with a plan to be ready for D-I by 2017)
(Bellarmine said they want to move to D-I to be higher profile soon or later)
(Arkansas Tech has been rumored to want to keep up with UCA and could move to D-I if the SLC had a spot for them)

Collegebballfanatic · **Posted:** Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:32 pm

Here is some info regarding No Kentucky http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2009 ... /1055/NEWS it looks like they are looking for a new AD in there quest to move to Div 1.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:26 pm

add Grand Canyon to the possible upgrade list

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3756

from FSA:

Most of the D-II schools are not gonna get in.

The list
Tarleton St.
C.Oklahoma
N.Kentucky
UCSD
Lincoln Memorial
Francis Marion
LeMoyne
Bellarmine

Others that have backed off of D-I
N.Alabama
W.Georgia
W.Florida
Grand Canyon

Others that could but have said nothing about leaving D-II
Arkansas Tech
Abilene Christian
W.Texas A&M
Delta St.
UN-Omaha
S.Indiana
Grand Valley St.

ScottyBuff · **Joined:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:23 pm **Posts:** 1

As a CSU-Pueblo Alumnus, season ticket holder, and resident of Pueblo, CO I can say unequivocally that CSU-P is not in "upgrade" mode at all.

There are far too many reasons to list, but safe to say that they are a decade or two of growth and success away from going that route.

Of all the RMAC schools in Colorado, they certainly look like an appealing candidate but the UNC Bears have proven that such a move has many pitfalls and they were far more prepared than CSU-P is right now.

Also, please update Air Force's status:

While they are certainly "Stable" in the MWC, the longshot option for them is not a Pac-10 invite (or even a Big-12) but Independence.

They place way more emphasis on schedule flexibility and they know the athletic and facility limitations of a service academy will not allow them to compete at a BCS level.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... n21118009/

While your list is detailed, including every "possible" option is exhaustive and therefore not informative or valuable. Pairing it down to only those options that have concrete "leads" would make it all the more valuable.

I don't mean that in a bad way, it is a great resource that you are providing, especially to "alignment geeks" like myself! Thanks again for the site!

garndiggity · **Joined:** Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:16 am **Posts:** 1

Utah Valley University got final approvals for full D-1 membership as of July 2009, despite sponsoring less than the required number of men's team sports.

Attendance problems abound thanks to choice of opponents, proximity to the much larger and more popular BYU, lack of success, commuter school status, and general student disinterest. From 2005-2008 the school had a club hockey team, which in 2007 and 2008 frequently drew more fans than any scholarship sport. This thoroughly pissed off the AD and Dean of Students who responded by dismantling the hockey program.

For many, many years now, students have started and heard rumors of UVU starting a football team. The rumors have gone far enough to include uniforms being designed and purchased, and that the team would initially play home games at a nearby high school. Students are currently paying $25 each per semester into a "Conference Affiliation Fund" that was dishonestly sold to them as a football team fund by student government and the athletic department.

UVU has desires to join The Summit. If they added football (and several other sports) and dropped baseball (or stayed ind.) they might be considered for Big Sky (whom they are interested in).

Grand delusions abound among various Athletics Department staff, the VP over Student Affairs, and Dean of Students, who have all, at times, been quoted as saying they are interested in, and "legitimate contenders" for membership in the WAC or even the MWC. A laughable thought at best.

Summary:
Possible: The Summit
Longshot: Big Sky
Delusional: WAC or MWC

sbaraldi · **Joined:** Sat May 08, 2010 3:18 pm **Posts:** 2

Quote:

Found a few teams whose descriptions need to be corrected:

Colorado--Stable and content in the Big 12. Was approached by the PAC 10 during the 90s regarding expansion (along with Texas) but did not make the move. If approached again, perhaps they would listen. They would provide the PAC 10 access to the Denver market, which would fit nicely into their current domination of the LA, Phoenix, San Fran, Portland, Seattle markets.

---If by market, you are talking about TV markets, then the PAC 10 does not have a presence in the Portland market (#23). The two Oregon schools are in the Eugene market (#120, smallest in the PAC 10).

Missouri--Stable and content but considered a top candidate for invitation into the Big Ten should Notre Dame turn it down again. Pittsburgh has gained some favor for the 12th spot, but Missouri would give the Midwest league the St. Louis market, while Pitt would not add anything that Penn State hasn’t already. Missouri is not in the St. Louis market (market #21) but is a part of the Columbia market (#137).

---The St. Louis market does not have any football teams in Division I football.

East Carolina--Provides near top 25 caliber football but little for basketball and virtually no market. Recent 2007 rumblings have a CUSA split into an eastern conference and a new Southwest Conference.

---Out of 210 TV markets, East Carolina is in market #105, smack in the middle. That is not quite "no market". FSU, Penn State, Nebraska, and Florida are all in smaller markets.

Quinn - An interesting point here. Since there are major cities without FBS schools, do the TV folks automatically assume those markets go to the biggest & nearest schools? Is San Antonio considered a Univ of Texas market because of its proximity to Austin? Okla City is an OU market? New Orleans an LSU market? Oh, wait, there's Tulane. Yeah, right...

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3756

sbaraldi wrote:

Quote:

Found a few teams whose descriptions need to be corrected:

Colorado--Stable and content in the Big 12. Was approached by the PAC 10 during the 90s regarding expansion (along with Texas) but did not make the move. If approached again, perhaps they would listen. They would provide the PAC 10 access to the Denver market, which would fit nicely into their current domination of the LA, Phoenix, San Fran, Portland, Seattle markets.

---If by market, you are talking about TV markets, then the PAC 10 does not have a presence in the Portland market (#23). The two Oregon schools are in the Eugene market (#120, smallest in the PAC 10).

Missouri--Stable and content but considered a top candidate for invitation into the Big Ten should Notre Dame turn it down again. Pittsburgh has gained some favor for the 12th spot, but Missouri would give the Midwest league the St. Louis market, while Pitt would not add anything that Penn State hasn’t already. Missouri is not in the St. Louis market (market #21) but is a part of the Columbia market (#137).

---The St. Louis market does not have any football teams in Division I football.

East Carolina--Provides near top 25 caliber football but little for basketball and virtually no market. Recent 2007 rumblings have a CUSA split into an eastern conference and a new Southwest Conference.

---Out of 210 TV markets, East Carolina is in market #105, smack in the middle. That is not quite "no market". FSU, Penn State, Nebraska, and Florida are all in smaller markets.

Quinn - An interesting point here. Since there are major cities without FBS schools, do the TV folks automatically assume those markets go to the biggest & nearest schools? Is San Antonio considered a Univ of Texas market because of its proximity to Austin? Okla City is an OU market? New Orleans an LSU market? Oh, wait, there's Tulane. Yeah, right...

The point is actually pretty simple: a school doesn't need to be in a city...it's alumni base does. If you've been to Portland, you'll know that there are a great number of Oregon and Oregon St. alumni. Portland is a Pac-10 city, especially with no other FBS option. In San Antonio, like most cities in Texas, it's a Longhorns base. If UTSA upgrades, they will work to put a dent into that, much like USF did in Tampa by adding football. And just because there is a school in a market, it doesn't mean they will ever take any sizable portion of the marketshare. For as good as Pitt has been, Penn St. still has a larger presence in that city.

finiteman · **Posted:** Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:30 pm

Quinn wrote:

Some more updates and cleanup done today. I like to keep the original content from the past to show the various moves by a school...it just needed to be cleaned up some.

I would suggest modifying that stance a bit. That is afterall what the archives are for. The Grid is the touchstone that makes this site appealing and frankly, by putting out of date info there, you make newbies wonder if there is anything of value here.

For example...I would suggest rather than:

Quinn wrote:

TCU

NEWS: 11/29/10: TCU has joined the Big East as it’s 9th football and 17th all-sports member.

…….

Newest MWC member would still be considered for the Big XII should they expand or need replacements.

1/31/04: TCU has accepted an invitation from the Mountain West.

1/22/04: Mountain West is expected to make it’s final plans by Feb. 1st. TCU is expected to receive an invitation. Should the MWC expand by 2, Boise State is expected to receive an invitation.

Specs:
Offers the Dallas/Ft. Worth market. Could get interest from the MWC should they expand. Rumored to be at the top of the list for candidates by the MWC.

* If TCU were to get an invite from the MWC and accept, CUSA could consider LA Tech or UTEP as replacements..

The WAC might be forced to bring in Sunbelt schools as replacements should any schools leave for CUSA.

instead you could punch it up:

Quote:

TCU
Stable for now but down the road could be a target for Big 12 (if UT leaves) or even a fringe target of the SEC (if they feel a need to expand beyond 12).

Specs:
Not a stateflagship or a school with strong statewide support. Offers some presence in the Dallas/Ft. Worth DMA, good academics, and a title contending football program.

Past decade history of moves
11/29/10: TCU has joined the Big East as it’s 9th football and 17th all-sports member.
1/31/04: TCU has accepted an invitation from the Mountain West.

I know you like some history so I re-wrote it to have that history, but there really is no reason to include the past motivations of the school and more, the strategy former conferences might employ if said school who left years ago might actually leave. That is all in the archives.

The grid should be the place that people see how plugged in you and this forum are.

IMO you are diminishing the greatness of your idea and frankly hurting the amount of traffic to your forums.

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