Big West realignment

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:23 pm

well if the BWC changes their mind from Dec. when they only chose to add Hawaii and pass on UCSD and CSUB, if they do I think they'd add both UCSD and CSUB to go to 12. I don't think they'd go to Divisions either since only, UCD and UOP are in the north. CP and CSUB are in the middle and the other 7 are in the South. Hawaii is on an island :mrgreen:

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

Sure, no need for divisions. Just means having a few 1 and done matchups, without home and homes.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

freaked4collegefb wrote:

Another article out of San Diego with comments from Big West Commish and others regarding possibility of UCSD as a future league member at http://www.nctimes.com/sports/college/a ... 9088e.html

Too bad about football. I wish some Big West and WCC schools would get together and form a non scholarship football conference at least until they get settled. Then down the road progressively add scholarships or move to the Big Sky. West coast football wants to get going but they need a foot in the door.

LBSU, CSUF, UCSD, USD, Santa Clara, SMU

Maybe USF would bring back football. Sad that they had to disband because they refused to play in the Orange Bowl because two black players were told they weren't welcome. 9-0 in 1951.

Back on point though. About time the UCSD rumors started up again. That school has done really well in its transition to D-II and they'd do well in D-I. Their baseball team is great and it would just be another great addition to a solid Big West baseball conference. Plus, it's San Diego which means a new big market.

Too bad that 12 means Bakersfield. That's not ideal but their only other options would be trying to lure SJSU or Sac St (not likely) or convince CSULA or CP Pomona to come up as well (also unlikely). SF State would be nice if they were decent in anything.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:43 pm

why do they hate CS Bakersfield so much. They were ranked in baseball last week. They were a D-II power in basketball. What makes them so terrible compared to the current CSUs in the BW?

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

why do they hate CS Bakersfield so much. They were ranked in baseball last week. They were a D-II power in basketball. What makes them so terrible compared to the current CSUs in the BW?

Don't get me wrong, it's not horrible. It fits nicely in terms of the type of school and location, but it is a lot smaller than the CSUs in the conference. Other than Cal Poly (~20k) the CSUs have populations over 35k, Bakersfield is a lot smaller (under 10k). CSUF, CSUN, and LBSU have the largest populations of all CSUs. Right after them are SDSU, SJSU, SF State, Sac St, FSU, CP Pomona, and CSULA.

In terms of endowment, the schools I mentioned are a lot closer to the current Big West schools, but like I said, they probably aren't available. In terms of enrollment, CSUB is down there with the Channel Islands, and Monterey Bay.

Now, that's not to say they can't compete, but it's a handicap. I'm sure they could manage. But you mention their good baseball team. Well in the Big West they'll probably be average most years. The Wild Card though, that's a growing area. Wonder what that place will be like 20 years from now.

And of course, I'm still in favor of 14 or 16 teams. Add them all! SDSU and FSU are fine in the MWC, but SJSU can't afford to play full time in a SWC. And Sac St would benefit a lot (heck it's an upgrade for a few sports).

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

Said it before, say it again: the problem with football in CA is that the programs cost more for the existing schools with it because of the lack or nearby schools to compete with. If you had a few more Big West schools with football, you could have sponsorship. Say CP, UCD, LBSU, UCSB, CSUN, and then UCSD. You might see Sac St join as #12 at that point. Still leaves CSUB out. But you'd have 7 schools with football and an incentive for others in the region like SD to upgrade and join as affiliates, same with Santa Clara who looked into football. By having a numebr of schools int he area, travel costs are down and interest is higher. You'd not only get your home teams fans at game, for say UCSD vs USD, you'd have both groups of fans. Sac St vs UCD, Cal Poly vs UCSB, etc.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

Quinn wrote:

Said it before, say it again: the problem with football in CA is that the programs cost more for the existing schools with it because of the lack or nearby schools to compete with. If you had a few more Big West schools with football, you could have sponsorship. Say CP, UCD, LBSU, UCSB, CSUN, and then UCSD. You might see Sac St join as #12 at that point. Still leaves CSUB out. But you'd have 7 schools with football and an incentive for others in the region like SD to upgrade and join as affiliates, same with Santa Clara who looked into football. By having a numebr of schools int he area, travel costs are down and interest is higher. You'd not only get your home teams fans at game, for say UCSD vs USD, you'd have both groups of fans. Sac St vs UCD, Cal Poly vs UCSB, etc.

That's what I've been saying (I even started a thread about the need for another western FCS conference). There's just no way to begin. If UCSD added football and came up their only conference option is the Big Sky and even though they need one more member, they aren't going to add a school that's just starting out. It's so bad USD plays their games out in Florida, Indiana, ect.

It comes down to everyone needs to get together and figure it out. It won't happen if schools add one at a time. CSUF will add if LBSU adds and hopefully that means CSUN adds too. But no one wants to start that domino. Unfortunately, now is not the time, maybe in like 5-10 years though.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3753

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

Quinn wrote:

Said it before, say it again: the problem with football in CA is that the programs cost more for the existing schools with it because of the lack or nearby schools to compete with. If you had a few more Big West schools with football, you could have sponsorship. Say CP, UCD, LBSU, UCSB, CSUN, and then UCSD. You might see Sac St join as #12 at that point. Still leaves CSUB out. But you'd have 7 schools with football and an incentive for others in the region like SD to upgrade and join as affiliates, same with Santa Clara who looked into football. By having a numebr of schools int he area, travel costs are down and interest is higher. You'd not only get your home teams fans at game, for say UCSD vs USD, you'd have both groups of fans. Sac St vs UCD, Cal Poly vs UCSB, etc.

That's what I've been saying (I even started a thread about the need for another western FCS conference). There's just no way to begin. If UCSD added football and came up their only conference option is the Big Sky and even though they need one more member, they aren't going to add a school that's just starting out. It's so bad USD plays their games out in Florida, Indiana, ect.

It comes down to everyone needs to get together and figure it out. It won't happen if schools add one at a time. CSUF will add if LBSU adds and hopefully that means CSUN adds too. But no one wants to start that domino. Unfortunately, now is not the time, maybe in like 5-10 years though.

First step would be to get a core 5 to add the sport at a non-scholarship level, like USD. Then you'd have 6 total and could state a conference, likely under the Big West banner with USD and Santa Clara plus 4 Big West schools. Then in time, you upgrade scholarships and facilities as needed. Then you can bring in UCD and CP for 8 members. Things work out, Sac St. could be in the mix, although, the Big West might be at 12 by then and these 3 schools could be in the WAC by then, talkin' 10 year window.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:10 am

Big West said they'll review UCSD for membership in May. They say 11 is awkward and they might have to look at CS Bakersfield for a 12th and split into Div. splitting rivalries. They need 8 yes votes to go ahead with membership. I don't see the need for divisions because there's no go way to split 6/6 in the BW. CUSA and ACC have 12 w/o division for basketball and it works fine. Didn't the BW just say yes to Hawaii and no to those 2 in Dec. What changed that they'll look again?

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=14251313

PS I hate the wording going D-I except football, making it seem like they have football that is going somewhere else. It's like saying Fresno is going to the MWC except for lingerie football, we don't have lingerie fb, so no need to say they aren't coming.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:21 am

it sounds like the big west commish is really high on ucsd. do they take bakersfield to get to 12 or do they try to wait out sacramento st or san jose st?

wbyeager · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:45 pm

The timing (May) makes me think that the WAC or WCC may be looking at one of their members. If they lose one, they add UCSD and go back to 10.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Pacific to the WCC makes sense but I haven't heard any news on that since 2007. No one would leave the Big West for the WAC unless they had football that was coming with them. That makes UCD and CP as the only options. Both said no already and joined the Sky for fb.

Any chance that the WAC would allow SJSU to be fb only and the rest of sports join the BW? They and UCSD gets you to 12. I still say they should just take CSUB and UCSD to go to 12. The UCs get one the CSUs get one. Aren't they supposed to stick together on a vote. CSUs should say give us CSUB we'll vote yes on UCSD.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:09 pm

i highly doubt the wac would let san jose stay for football only. that would kill any chance at recruting another all sports fbs member from california as well as put the wac in deeper jeopardy of losing fbs status. they have to have 8 all sports members who play football to remain an fbs conference. if lamar does not move up as expected they could lose their fbs status which would prevent them from inviting fcs upgrades and therefore permanently kill the an fbs wac

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

accseahawk wrote:

i highly doubt the wac would let san jose stay for football only. that would kill any chance at recruting another all sports fbs member from california as well as put the wac in deeper jeopardy of losing fbs status. they have to have 8 all sports members who play football to remain an fbs conference. if lamar does not move up as expected they could lose their fbs status which would prevent them from inviting fcs upgrades and therefore permanently kill the an fbs wac

I disagree. They need 8 football playing members to be an FBS conference (and I'm pretty sure they don't need 8 full time members to stay in D-1 and of course their FBS status is completely unrelated to their D-I status). By allowing SJSU (and in turn Idaho) stay as football only members, they significantly cut down on travel costs in other sports. It's win-win for everyone involved. The WAC seems to realize that their future is as a Texas centered conference and that's where they will expand.

So to stay an FBS conference they need 8 football playing members. They currently have 7. Even if SJSU and Idaho move their Olympic sports, they still have 7 football members. They'd still need an upgrade from FCS (Lamar, UT-Arlington ect). If SJSU and Idaho move their Olympic sports they'd have 6 full time members (I believe they would need 7) so again, still only need 1. Of course it would be nice to have more, but that's what is required.

I see your point about never being able to expand on the West Coast after, but at this point, and for the foreseeable future, there are no schools looking to upgrade on the West Coast anyway.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:00 am

You need 7 all sports to count as a conf., 8 FBS to count as a FBS conf. Idaho can NOT go to the Big Sky for other sports and play fb in the WAC, since they have football. You need to be in a conf. that doesn't sponsor fb. The Sky won't allow that.

SJSU could do it if the WAC allows it because they have the BWC as fall back. WCC and BWC won't take Idaho.

If they let Idaho and SJSU be fb only members they'd need Lamar and UTA to join. If UTA says no then your only expansion options are Seattle, who's probably ahead of UTA on the WAC list anyway, CSUB and UVU. All in the west. It would be dumb to allow the fb members to go and try and bring in the 2 west coast schools.

Your all sports WAC
UTSA
Texas St.
Lamar
La Tech
NMSU
Utah St.
Denver*
UVU*
Seattle*
CSUB*

Denver would leave for the Summit, Seattle would hope to get a WCC invite. CSUB would hope that UOP got in the WCC over Seattle to open a spot up for them in the BWC. I'm pretty sure all the fb members would hope for a Sun Belt invite to get out of the Great Westish looking WAC.

Idaho doesn't have an out. So that should keep this abortion from happening. I don't know what they think about SJSU doing the fb only thing.

Big West realignment

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