I don’t believe I’m confusing Academics and Admission Standards.

West Point and Princeton University are the only academic institutions in the nation that rank in the top four in both Rhodes and Hertz Scholarships awarded for excellence in under-graduate study.

Now granted USMA doesn't have a heavy emphasis on graduate work, but in comparison to other undergrad programs, it is among the nations most respected.

IMHO, I was basically saying that I thought Army/Navy brought more (in football). Its just an opinion. Who cares if Army has played ND Ever? No one will argue that ND and Army have a rivalry, because they dont. Its just the package idea. Keeping Army and Navy together somehow. Granted they don't bring alot right now (SOS), I understand that. My thought was more along the lines of "potential".

JUCOS. I've tried but have not yet found a document that shows how many Juco's were signed by Ohio State this yr. I know Florida signed 6 last yr. And that was a shocker to many. I would greatly appreciate someone finding this. They are an academic and disciplinary risk, but they are probably not as many in number as one may think.

I'm not sure what you mean by Cincinnati and Louisville being OSU jr?

Outlined against a blue-gray October sky, the Four Horsemen rode again. In dramatic lore they are known as Famine, Pestilence, Destruction and Death. These are only aliases. Their real names are Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden. They formed the crest of the South Bend cyclone before which another fighting Army football team was swept over the precipice at the Polo Grounds yesterday afternoon as 55,000 spectators peered down on the bewildering panorama spread on the green plain below.

A cyclone can't be snared. It may be surrounded, but somewhere it breaks through to keep on going. When the cyclone starts from South Bend, where the candle lights still gleam through the Indiana sycamores, those in the way must take to storm cellars at top speed.

Yesterday the cyclone struck again as Notre Dame beat the Army, 13 to 7, with a set of backfield stars that ripped and crashed through a strong Army defense with more speed and power than the warring cadets could meet.

Wow, that was almost 80 yrs ago. I'm not so sure the rivalry is still there, but it could be.

ND's 1st national championship?

Yes, it was ND's first National Championship.

Actually, the teams played every year 1913-1947 except 1918 when schedules were abbreviated for WWI. 1946 was the famous 0-0 tie when ND broke Army's 25 game winning streak (which included 48-0 and 59-0 maulings of the Irish) and set up another ND National Title. The series broke off after the '47 season (I'm sure there is a story there), but has been revived 2 or 3 times a decade, most recently in '95 and '98 when ND held on for narrow wins on both occasions. Army is not on ND's schedule, though, for the rest of this decade.

I guess my point is not that they have a current rivalry, but the history is almost mythical, with the kind of potential to tap into the kind of nostalgia that sells tickets to baseball games at Fenway or Camden Yards. Just can't buy that kind of stuff off the shelf with a Marshall or USF.

Last several posts well done, orangefan. Football has more traditions than any other college sport, and I always admire other fans sensitive to football's history and heritage...
:D

I'm as much for the traditions of college football as any fan. I recognize these OLD connections.

Nobody is clamoring to bring back Princeton/Rutgers or Yale/Harvard to a national scale. This is NOT 1945 anymore. Now Army has withdrawn from C-USA and will more than likely work to bring back some historical rivals. This will be good for Army and good for some of these other programs (many 1AA's in this list), but this doesn't change the fact that both Army and Navy pretty much suck.

Basketball is not even at question, they can't compete. So the question is what does their football bring to the equation...Tradition, and ???

Competition/SOS...NO

What does the Big East need more right now? Tradition of the past, or SOS? Please don't answer with regional rivalry, because you get some of that with keeping Temple, or adding Cincy/Louisville. At least none of these schools are in FLA.

I will agree that Army and Navy SHOULD be a package. They are indelibly connected, and the C-USA connection of Army has done nothing to help Army, and the absence of Navy in this package may in part be a piece of the failure of this marriage. Just don't think the BigEast is the class they are ready to rise up to.

8-)

Just out of plain curiosity, how many "military schools" are there, and could they form their own league?

we have for sure:
Army
Navy
Air Force
VMI
The Citadel

are there others I'm not thinking of?
does the Coast Guard academy do college sports?

Wags, I think the Big East needs to do all of the above. I think there should be a conference based almost exclusively east of Ohio and north of Virginia. Army and Navy are both there, and I think they should be in that conference as long as they're in 1A.

Army
Boston College
Connecticut
Navy
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

maybe Marshall


The northeast is a region--that's enough for me...give it a conference.

Army and Navy do not need allsports memberships.that alone saves 2 extra sets of charges from allsports.Their fan support is excellent and the value of the Army/Navy game will help tv.They are true northeastern 1A.They make the case for ND socalled independent football from 3 games to 5.Besides there is not going to be the arrival of PSU or MD.Nor is Temple and all of its problems a solution.

You can add Texas A&M as a division 1-A and Alabama A&M, Florida A&M, and Prairie View A&M (TX) as 2-A.

Arbitrage97, I agree with you in the general context of things. The northeast is full of more appropriate competitiors for the service academies in the east. Patriot League competition is a start. Delaware, Colgate, William and Mary, Northeastern, Fordham, Hofstra, UMass, Richmond, Lehigh, Villanova, and even Ivy League teams would make better matches for Navy/Army rather the likes of Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, and so forth. I-AA needs to structured to appear attractive and a viable option rather than the considerably diminished image it carries. Also, it is not just Army and Navy that would be better off in a more appropriate classification, but a number of Sun Belt and MAC (and a few others) schools as well.

The Coast Guard Academy does play sports including football. It is a NCAA lower division.

Cybercat.....perhaps Clemson will go back to its heritage as being a military school and join up.

Why is everyone worried about this? Does Army and Navy belong in the Great Northeast yes. Do they need them in the Great Northeast yes they do. Because without Miami and Va tech the Big east became the little east. They need at least 10 teams if not 12 in football. 1 for pride and 2 to show Miami and va tech they don't need them and 3 without a championship game they may be dropped from the BCS system. Just my opinion

_________________
The Bear may be dead but he still hates Tennessee. Roll Damn Tide

Navy, and perhaps Army, may end up in the BE for football if Notre Dame ends up with some partial and divisional membership in conference football. Otherwise, Cincinatti and Louisville, being a westward expansion, will be BE which may result in the service academies being excluded.