I'm pretty sure that when the Big Sky invited North Dakota, it was during a time one of the other Dakotas was still in a lurch, and expected to come with ND. IIRC, it was South Dakota. Then SD was suddenly offered a spot in the Summit, and the Big Sky brass was left in this awkward position where it had invited ND already, and couldn't (wouldn't) rescind the invite, but in reality, they only wanted ND and SD as a package deal - travel partners who extended the footprint out to two new states, and created a nice 12/14 alignment to protect them against the likely loss of Montana and MSU after the 2011 season to the WAC (which would've then left the Big Sky at 10/12).

Instead, SD goes to the Summit, ND comes to the Big Sky, and the Sky had an awkward 11/13 number. My hunch is that they were chagrined about this, but obviously would never say so publicly about one of their own.

One of the more well-read folks on here could vouch for if my timeline is correct or not. But I believe it is true that the "SD to the Summit" happened during a tenuous time when the Big Sky was actually making offers to both SD and ND.

That's exactly what happened. Big Sky laid out the plan to invite southern Utah, UND and USD (as well as the Cal-Pol/UCD fb only invites). Plan was for 12 all sports and 14 for football with the two Dakota schools. USD opted out after initially showing interest, leaving the Big Sky at 11 for all sports and 13 for football...and UND on an island way out on the east.

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I believe the Dakota schools where being brought in partly to increase the academic profile of the Big Sky which appeased the Montana schools and helped keep them in the Sky. I also think that was partly why the Sky made the exception for the CA schools.

I also think there is a fair chance Idaho (a flagship school) returns to the Sky during the conference shakeup. What other conference would want a school in the middle of BFE with no population base or great sports.

Good info, thank you for confirming that good sir. So...from there, I'm deducing that both the Big Sky AND North Dakota would desire for ND to get into the Summit with this new vacancy. The arrangement with the Sky didn't end up working out the way either side originally intended. Because of this, I think the Sky will facilitate an ND exit by allowing them to stay as a FB only in the Sky. That's how much the Sky teams would prefer to not send all their minor sports teams to ND.

To me it's just a matter of whether the Summit would take them, or whether the Summit thinks they have a better candidate for #10.

off hand i dont know the difference between big sky or summit league academics, but what i do know is that the summit did kick out chicago st for poor academics. as for my alma mater, oakland weve recently started a masters nursing program, have a partnership with cooley law, just debuted our inaugural medical program this year & are rated as a doctoral/research university by carnegie. were 1 of 4 universities in the state that even have a medical program. michigan state, michigan, wayne state & now oakland. thats some pretty good company if you ask me.

I dont' think that is the case. I dont' think the Big sky WANTS ND to leave.

Must remember, that the Big Sky expansion was partially due to the notion of protecting the conference. The WAC was making overtures to many Big Sky schools. And there was a real fear that Montana (with Montana St. likely), Portland St., Sacramento St. to name a few would bolt for the WAC, upgrading the FBS. So the Big Sky was wise to add the numbers so that IFFF they lost schools, they would be safe. Turned out nobody left, but schools could still leave in the future. So that 11/13 six years from now could be 8/10.

Now if the WAC loses more schools to MWC/CUSA, then you'll see the WAC make another strong push for Big Sky schools. Doesn't mean they will bite. But who knows...eventually, schools in FCS will upgrade to FBS...we know it will happen at some point and we can't rule out Big Sky schools when the ones mentioned have the facilities and/or support to make FBS a potential success.

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About 4 years ago (or so), the Summit was known as the MCC Mid-Continent Conference.
I think commissioner Tom Douple had just come aboad and the conference was a mess.
They had schools spread out as far as SW Utah, Louisiana, Indiana, and Michigan.
The new candidates on the scene were up in the Dakotas.
At one point the conference was at 8.
Chicago State was a member, and I think there werre some incidents within their athletic department,
that hinted of loss of institutional control, or potential NCAA violations.
Chicago State abruptly announced they weere "going independent".
I think this was a way the MCC allowed them to save face, and not be publically kicked out of the MCC.
The MCC then expanded from 7 to 10, by adding IPFW, NDSU, and SDSU.
NDSU and SDSU were farther along their transition to D-1 than North Dakota and South Dakota, who were alos seen as potential members.
After Westtern Kentucky moved their FB from FCS (MVFC, then known as the Gateway Conference) up to FBS (Sun-Belt),
the MVFC added NDSU and SDSU for teams 8 and 9.
The conference changed it's name to "the Summit League" (they must have thought being at the Summmit let them look down at "the Horizon"...).
Centenary prepared to leave for D-III, and the Summit invited South Dakota. They accepted, but did not have an invitation to the MVFC yet, so continued to play FB in the GWFC.
Southern Utah always looked like they belonged in the Big Sky, and were passed over for that back in 2003, in lieu of Northern Colorado.
Finally in 2010, the Big Sky decided to devour the Great West Football Conference. They invited SUU for all sports, and UCDavis and Cal-Poly-SLO for FB only.
They also invited North Dakota and South Dakota for all sports.
South Dakota hedged, and at the last minute got the new #10 spot in the MVFC and remained in the Summit with NDSU, SDSU.
North Dakota would have loved the same arrangement, but didn't get it, since the MVFC was now at an even number, and North Dakota still had the "nickname issue".
Ideally, UN-Omaha would join and North Dakota and UNO would come aboard fora all sports and be MVFC #11 and #12.
Suddenly UNO jioined, but announced they were abandoning FB.
Apparently Nebraska politics is such that UN-L is funded to be THE D-1 FB team in the state,
so UNO AD Trev Alberts decided UNO would devote their funding to be THE D-1 hockey team in the state.
With the departure of ORU, UNO looks like the perfect travel partner for UMKC.
The conference geography is now:
NDSU
SDSU - USD
UNO - UMKC
Western Illinois - IUPUI
Oakland - IPFW

Man, does North Dakota plug in there perfectly, if only the nickname situation gets resolved (it appears to be),
and they can find a home for FB (maybe the Big Sky would let them play FB there, until an MVFC slot opens).

Regardless of the Big Sky positives, one thing is for sure: the Summit would be better for UND than the Bog Sky simply because of the current membership. UND has much more in common with NDSU, SDSU, USD, UNO and the rest of the Summit than they do with SUU, Idaho St., NAU, Sac st., EWU, etc. But UND has football and needs a conference. There are no options that would make the MVFC budge so it's Big Sky for UND or nothing.

but you're right, you would think that the Big Sky would see the benefit of being able to cut their travel budgets for EVERY school by having UND switched to a FB only member. Want to schedule them for OOC, go for it. But it's senseless to want to have to force Sac St., NAU, and others to fly all their secondary sports through 1-2 time zones.

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Folks around North Dakota figgered the nickname issue was settled....

But those folks didn't figger on a Native American named Archie Fool Bear.....

http://www.uscho.com/2011/11/02/sioux-n ... her-twist/



This is right up there with the Big East Follies.

legacy.grandforksherald.com/pdfs/20111101_Lawsuit_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

this is just part of the the spirit lake tribe's lawsuit. nothing in there is actual fact, its just the basis of their lawsuit. some of it isnt even true or leaves out material facts.



i read the article a couple days ago & i dont see how it can hold up in court.

if his tribe is ok with the nickname, why havent he & his tribe had the tribal council take the vote to give UND permissions to use the name? that permission is the ONLY thing the ncaa wanted to allow them to continue using the name.

according to the original article the state legislature is still going to vote to repeal the earlier law to keep the nickname & furthermore the republican who initially brought the law into place has backed off & is now in favor of repealing the law.

Yeah, I think the "powers that be" are now committed to retiring the nickname and logo.

Florida State was allowed to continue using "Seminoles" by getting written permission from the tribe to use the name and logo.
Illinois gets to use "Fighting Illini" based upon the fact that the "Illini" is an extinct tribe, therefore nobody to offend, and no possibility to receive permission.

North Dakota had held out hope that they could get permission to continue with "Fighting Sioux".
Apparently "Sioux" was white-man slang that referred to the Lakota, and the term had a somewhat derogatory connotation.
There are two identifiable tribes that claim to have descended from the Lakota.
The one tribe conducted a vote and it was 2-to-1 in favor of granting permission to the University.
The other tribe dragged it's feet on a referendum. Then the tribe went through it's typical election cycle, and some new tribal leaders were voted in (maybe summer of 2010 ?)
The new leadership group in that tribe still refused to conduct a referendum.
Some university administrators went to the tribal council to request a vote, but that fell on deaf ears.
You got the impression that one or more of the top leaders must have found "Sioux" offensive and by refusing a referendum figured he would force ND to "bite the bullet" and change.
And the NCAA's 3-year time limit for gaining permission expired in late 2010.

i suppose that once the law is repealed, and the school announces a new nickname, the matter is essentially closed...
(then the NCAA has given the school a grace period within which to remove all the Sioux logos).

If the Big Sky were to permit Boise St. / Air Force to park their non-FB sports there, might they then allow North Dakota to move to the Summit, and just remain an FCS football associate member ?

I do not think the NCAA has any business telling schools what their name should be. It is just more yellow belied political correctness where everyone is America is a victim with bo bos on their feelings.

This issue is and should be between the University and the Sioux people and no one else....
This group of Sioux people obviously feel the same way....

Per attached story, North Dakota has passed and signed into law a statute enabling University of North Dakota to proceed with switching their nickname from "the Fighting Sioux".

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45219383/ns/sports/



Leading contenders for the replacement nickname include:
Fighting Apache
Fighting Shoshone
Fighting Cherokee

NONONONONO just my attempt at a bad joke....

I still prefer my favorite, "Tatankas"

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