The Official "Why ECU is not in the Big East" Thread

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3752

OK. Over the years, there is one school whose fans read the site articles, read the grid...and share their opinions with me: ECU fans.

Note that these fans seldom respond via Twitter, never comment publicly in the comments section of the articles, and just about never post on the forums here. Instead, for whatever reason, they email me directly. I might even share some of the emails (removing the personal name/info from them) here at some point.

So what I would like to do is build a out a thread here to explain exactly why the Big East continues to look past ECU...why the ACC has never expressed interest in ECU...why the SEC would never happen.

I'm not looking for any smug attacks on the school. I'm just looking for reality. But rather than starting off with my own thoughts (which you will find all over the articles and Big East threads here)...I'm turning to you guys to start it off. Going forward, I'll be sharing this thread link with ECU fans to help them out. Think of this as your opportunity to show what you know about the biz, the politics, etc, for these ECU guys.

In time I will add my own thoughts but are giving you guys the first shot!

Enjoy!

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1490

I'm not an ECU guy, but this is an interesting topic.

ECU positives - one of the consistently best FB programs in North Carolina, great fan support, fans travel well.

ECU negatives (and things they can't really do much about) -
Overshadowed in their market by four (4), count 'em (4) ACC schools.
ECU FB is typically stronger than Wake and Duke (at times in the 80s and 90s, ECU was actually tops in the state), BUT
they can't get around the fact that the ACC has tied up the eyeballs with the TV networks.
ECU gets stigmatized as "a directional school", and "little brother" to the ACC 4.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3752

Previous emails:

#1:

Quote:

On Sep 21, 2011, at 6:12 PM, xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Mr. Peloquin-

I really enjoy keeping up with the Conference Expansion / Implosion reports that you have been doing. It's a great place to keep track of how actual things, and imagined things, have taken place over the last few days. Thanks and keep it up- interesting stuff!

However, you might want to work on your North Carolina geography a little bit. You state today that Raleigh is on the other side of the State from East Carolina. That is simply wrong. Greenville, NC, where ECU is located, is just about 80 miles east of Raleigh. That's pretty close considering that North Carolina is 450 miles wide from the Outer Banks to the Smokies! And ECU has a huge alumni base in Raleigh, and for that matter across NC. You may not be aware of this, but ECU is the second largest university in North Carolina, only Chapel Hill is larger.

> So even though you don't seem to like ECU, and I really don't understand why, you might want to brush up on your geography a little bit. Maybe you've been in Argentina too long to remember.

Thanks for your support of the site.

Unfortunately, when an article is posted, I don't use it as a platform to discuss my own personal history. I've spent enough time in Greenville over y life, spending months at a time living there, as well as Wilmington, Raleigh and even the outer banks to comprehend the nature of all things ECU. And what I know is that it would be foolish to think that ECU would do anything to deliver the Raleigh market. Anything. Because the market is already dominated by 3 schools with a superior academic record and ACC dominance of the market by actually 4 schools. ECU might as well be 1000 miles away if one if to think they would have any impact on the Raliegh market.

Regards,
Matt Peloquin

And the followup to my email:

Quote:

Matt-

I beg to differ, however, I do agree that it would not be the dominant team in the Raleigh market, taking a back seat to NC State and UNC. Duke, not so much, since ECU is a huge state school made up primarily of NC resident students. And since you've been in Greenville a lot, you know that ECU has no trouble filling their stadium for games. My daughter went to school there, so I know that if you can't have a good time in Greenville as a college student, well you just don't know how to have a good time!

My point is that ECU is not without a market in the highly populated North Carolina. It may not be the biggest, but the Big East isn't going to get UNC to join. ECU might just be one of the best of admittedly poor choices for the Big East right now. Personally, I don't see how Big East football can survive in the long run, but that's another story.

#2:

Quote:

On 8/17/2011 6:24 PM, xxxxxxx wrote:
But I need to correct two assumptions: (1) ECU has a HUGE state following averaging over 100% of capacity over the last few years (over 44K per game in a 43K-seat stadium) and we are expanding our stadium to 50K seats. I would correctly say that ECU has the third largest fan base in the state of NC, behind UNC (by a mile) and NCSU (by a ½ mile). (2) I would also argue the “TV Market” assumption being that most of our alumni and fan base lives outside of Greenville in the Raleigh, Charlotte and VA Tidewater markets (Raleigh is only 1.25 hours away). There is a reason ECU has played more games in Charlotte at BoA Stadium than anyone else.

Thanks, I will be sure to refer others to the site over the next few weeks.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

With the ACC it's simply the history of the conference. The four NC schools are founding members so there have always been 4 NC schools in the conference. Thus there is no reason to get a 5th. As far as the SEC, that's obvious. Though it would be fun for them to grab ECU and turn them into the powerhouse school in the state.

The Big East however has absolutely no excuse. It's completely baffling as to why they aren't being invited. The only thing I can think of is that they don't bring a good basketball program. I would assume that after Temple, they are next on the list though of expansion targets. There just aren't many options left.

Pirate85 · **Joined:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:10 pm **Posts:** 2

My gut feeling is that Rick Pitino is keeping us out for some reason (hell I don't know). Real gut feeling is - Location, Location, Location.
I do know the big east attitude toward ECU has awakened a non sleeping gaint. I'm hearing of massive new Pirate Club and Alumni Assc.
membership in last month and half. Last two recent away game viewing parties I attended had double number of Alumni than in recent parties and this is 275
miles from Greenville in Western part of state of NC. All talking about ordering next year season tickets. I'm trying to find out from Pirate Club
what the actual increase percentages are - no luck at this time.
We are pissed off and sure feel like red head step childern ( sorry if not politically correct) however we are going to handle this in a grown up
/ professionally manner. Talk and posts of organizing to speed up the short term goal of increasing to 60k stadium in 5 years in lieu of 10. Talk of
plans for 75k and greater. ECU has a 65% graduation rate (of course that is 5.5 years) with 28,000 to 30k total student body.
We fill stadium with 50k + and last two home games people turned away not able to get tickets - even from scapers.
I'm very excited in what I'm seeing and by big east being a snob is going to be the best thing ever to happen to East Carolina Uni. -
Wait and see.

46566 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:06 am **Posts:** 114

From my point of view ECU has had moderate success in football and Men Basketball. While they may be the second biggest school in NC They do not seem to have any pull elsewhere. there 4-4 as of right now. They were 6-7 last year. 9-4 the year before that. 9-5 before that. They have been Mediocre at best in a weaker conference then the big east. While money may make a difference(as it has helped USF) Does a school in North Carolina or help the big east bottom line or in recruiting? UCF leapfrogged ECU simply because it guarantees schools a FB game in Florida each season in football and 2 games in basketball. UCF suffers the same fate as ECU but it has more advantages as it is in Florida.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

The 4th and/or 5th of the most desirable schools from Florida are in or targeted for the BE. So, the 3rd, 4th, or 5th most desirable school (ECU) from North Carolina has a reasonable factor to it for consideration.

ECU is up and down in fb, but they have a strong fan base for fb. They have good facilities, and frankly their academic programs exceed what is suggested by a directional name.

If schools such as WVU, VPI, and Pitt were still in the BE for the future, ECU, would blend well as far as cultivating rivalries and traveling fans.

The SEC is out of the question for obvious reasons. The ACC already has "4" NC members, and resistance to a "5" makes absolute sense. But in terms of the BE, ECU should be a decent candidate. I would say the same about Temple.

ECU would be a loyal member---not a TCU. And having a BE member in the "heart" of ACC territory may have more plus than minus. In terms of market, first there has got to be fannies in the stadium. ECU has that capability. We know some schools in big metro areas deliver little interest; so fan base, alumni, region, facilities, school growth and stability, need to be factored in as well.

To me, the BE dissing regional schools who could contribute positively, is a mistake. If stability was a BE desire, pick those who will be there for the long-haul. And frankly, some of the reasons Temple and ECU (and UCF before for that matter), have been rejected, is over petty stuff from certain existing members. Much of it, though not all, has come from the bb only side of the BE.

When ECU left the southern conference and upgraded years ago, they should have anticipated this complexity in some form or another.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3752

Thanks for those who have already contributed and any who will in the future.

Just want to make sure we stay on target here. We're trying to provide a service by sticking to why ECU is NOT in a bCS conference and why the Big East has brought in 5 football members already as replacements (passing on ECU) and is poised to invite another 7 schools without including ECU.

The last thing we want to do is further confuse ECU fans who seem to post on various forums under the assumption that ECU is a better fit than even some schools already in the Big East. What we want to do is help keep things factual as to why they are always passed over.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:03 pm

Greenville is not the easiest place to get to which may play a role, especially in the market driven Big East. Right now in the Big East, the hardest place to get to is WVU. They are a state flagship though and have a history with many of the schools in the Big East and are within the northeast footprint the Big East claims. All other schools in the Big East are in or right beside major cities.

It does not seem like the market driven Big East wants to go the WVU route with a school they don't have a much history with, despite all the positives ECU brings. Not fair but thats how it is.

Pirate85 · **Joined:** Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:10 pm **Posts:** 2

Could be the 10 or 12 years back in the 70's and early 80's when "Playboy" Magazine used to rank the nation's party schools
and we always ranked high and even remember couple of years ECU not shown on list however they were at bottom of ranking list
with an Asterisk and wording like "You can't rank Pros with Amateurs". I know North Carolina mamas will not let thier kids go to
ECU because of that reputation and that same reputaion may be keeping us out of the Big East ????

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

Quinn wrote:

Thanks for those who have already contributed and any who will in the future.

Just want to make sure we stay on target here. We're trying to provide a service by sticking to why ECU is NOT in a bCS conference and why the Big East has brought in 5 football members already as replacements (passing on ECU) and is poised to invite another 7 schools without including ECU.

The last thing we want to do is further confuse ECU fans who seem to post on various forums under the assumption that ECU is a better fit than even some schools already in the Big East. What we want to do is help keep things factual as to why they are always passed over.

Quinn, the answer to the question has to come from the Big East. We can all speculate about location, market, enough BCS schools already in NC, directional name, won-loss records, etc. But Marinatto needs to give the ECU President, AD Holland, and perhaps the Governor who wrote a support letter, an explanation. The BE can say something like "ECU does not meet our needs at this time" or "we are going in another direction", but all that is saying more politely perhaps, "we don't want you". The ECU officials should press for a candid explanation and not just a rejection. The bb-onlies simply would have no interest in ECU, and the fb schools that could/would support ECU, are mostly gone. Rutgers & UConn have little history with ECU, and Louisville and Ciny see themselves as a cut above most former C-USA associates.

My perception, as I suggested earlier, is primarily "attitude". Given that the BE has lost many of their prime schools, they still see themselves as an "elite" conference, and gone out of their way (into the west) to find schools with prominent names, either by high recent fb success, or a name deep in history.

They see ECU as inferior, and undeserving as a peer. It is not fair and probably not accurate, given the conference's circumstances and residual make-up. There is little ECU can do beyond asking; then re-focusing with C-USA and striving for the best success they can achieve.

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

First off, let me say that the ECU fan base is quite awesome. They're loyal, dedicated, the Fourth Quarter No Quarter thing is cool as hell.

But the fact of the matter is:

#1. Greenville, NC MSA 183,000 people. #220 market.

#2. The No. 5 FBS program in North Carolina (in no order: UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake).

#3. Lack of excellence on the football field. No disrespect to what ECU's done. They're clearly one of the top three programs in C-USA virtually every year. They've beaten ranked teams, cranked out NFL prospects.

But they're good. They need to be dominant. Since the Big East raid, Memphis hoops is 181-41; 90-12 in conference; five C-USA titles in six full seasons.

Boise State football since 2001: 118-13. Two BCS bids (and wins).

ECU football since the Big East raid: 44-35.

Again, very good. But to overcome market size, to overcome the state's depth chart, you gotta be pimp-slapping fools. You can't lose to 7-6 So Miss, 8-5 Houston, and two under .500 ACC teams in 2008. You gotta go 12-1 to get a look. Then you have to do it again. And again. And again. Until they say "If we're going to lose to them, we might as well get a cut of the paycheck when they go to a bowl at our expense."

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3752

JPSchmack wrote:

First off, let me say that the ECU fan base is quite awesome. They're loyal, dedicated, the Fourth Quarter No Quarter thing is cool as hell.

But the fact of the matter is:

#1. Greenville, NC MSA 183,000 people. #220 market.

#2. The No. 5 FBS program in North Carolina (in no order: UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake).

#3. Lack of excellence on the football field. No disrespect to what ECU's done. They're clearly one of the top three programs in C-USA virtually every year. They've beaten ranked teams, cranked out NFL prospects.

But they're good. They need to be dominant. Since the Big East raid, Memphis hoops is 181-41; 90-12 in conference; five C-USA titles in six full seasons.

Boise State football since 2001: 118-13. Two BCS bids (and wins).

ECU football since the Big East raid: 44-35.

Again, very good. But to overcome market size, to overcome the state's depth chart, you gotta be pimp-slapping fools. You can't lose to 7-6 So Miss, 8-5 Houston, and two under .500 ACC teams in 2008. You gotta go 12-1 to get a look. Then you have to do it again. And again. And again. Until they say "If we're going to lose to them, we might as well get a cut of the paycheck when they go to a bowl at our expense."

Right on. Sad, but 7 CUSA schools have been invited to the Big East for football over ECU...9 schools total with Depaul and Marquette. Throw in Uconn for football. BSU, TCU and SDSU from the MWC for football. Navy for football. BYU, Army and Air Force have so far passed on the Big East after invited, something ECU never got. So the totals:

12 football schools joined Big East while ECU got no invite.
2 non-football schools
3 football schools PASSED on Big East.

That's 15 football schools over ECU. Think that should be enough to get the ECU fans to embrace their current status. But they should hope that Uconn and Rutgers (rutgers only original Big East football member left) leave so ECU can rejoin CUSA as it is now called Big East football.

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

I also think building a BCS AQ Conference-worthy basketball arena would take a big question mark off their ledger.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

No disrespect to ECU, because I think they belong with THIS BE and probably even before. The point, ECU is not alone per the slights.

However, a better question could be: "Why the University of Southern Mississippi is not in the Big East".

If BE fb expansion is about taking C-USA fb success, well...............(OK, the market/location stuff, facilities, any convenient reason, etc., but.....)

Aside from bb, funny how Memphis entrance to the BE is herald in terms of future commitment and possibilities; not on fb success.

The Official "Why ECU is not in the Big East" Thread

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