Southland Expansion

dafoeberezin3494 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:32 am

braves86 wrote:

dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

My guess is that Lamar will go FBS (either Sun Belt or WAC) and the Southland will hold at 10. Maybe if Lamar doesn't move, they'll give UTPA a look for 12.

Would UTPA consider moving to D-II, maybe Heartland or Lone Star, if they can't get into the Southland? I don't know anything about the school or program but it seems they've been in limbo for quite awhile.

I don't think UTPA would drop down to a D2.

Any particular reason why? Do they have a real shot at the Southland even after getting passed over for Oral Roberts and Houston Baptist? Are they really a viable independent?

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 469

dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

My guess is that Lamar will go FBS (either Sun Belt or WAC) and the Southland will hold at 10. Maybe if Lamar doesn't move, they'll give UTPA a look for 12.

Would UTPA consider moving to D-II, maybe Heartland or Lone Star, if they can't get into the Southland? I don't know anything about the school or program but it seems they've been in limbo for quite awhile.

At this point if the Big East West division does happen (which is far from a certainty) the WAC is going to lose schools to the MWC and C-USA. I don't know if the Sun Belt would want Texas State and UTSA which means those two could be headed back to the Southland since they would end up in the MWC or C-USA and the WAC won't be around. UT-A would probably head back to the Southland as well giving them 14.

Of course the Big East West may not happen and the WAC may live which would mean Lamar to the WAC as you said. But seriously, who knows anymore.

If the Big East West happens, C-USA could add 3 (Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, North Texas). Sun Belt could add UTSA, Texas State, UTA, Lamar for 12 football, 14 all-sports. Which would mean Southland would be at 10, and possibly stay there.

It all comes down to what the Sun Belt wants. It's possible that the Sun Belt will lose a couple schools in the next round of expansion but we have to ask, how many teams does the conference want and does the conference want to go east or west? Appy State seems to be inching towards FBS. Charlotte wants to come up and they'll need a football only home until C-USA invites them. A school in Georgia might be a good idea. If North Texas ends up in C-USA to replace SMU then the Sun Belt will have to decide between going back to Texas or shifting the conference east.

Texas State has wanted to come up for awhile but the Sun Belt never invited them, even though they made a nice regional fit. Now, I would like to see the Sun Belt go to 12, 14, or 16 as you all suggest, but I'm not sure they all bring enough to the table to warrant splitting the pot that many ways.

If the Sun Belt wanted 12, I would think they'd have already invited someone, but they haven't.

braves86 · **Joined:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:54 pm **Posts:** 16

dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

braves86 wrote:

dafoeberezin3494 wrote:

My guess is that Lamar will go FBS (either Sun Belt or WAC) and the Southland will hold at 10. Maybe if Lamar doesn't move, they'll give UTPA a look for 12.

Would UTPA consider moving to D-II, maybe Heartland or Lone Star, if they can't get into the Southland? I don't know anything about the school or program but it seems they've been in limbo for quite awhile.

I don't think UTPA would drop down to a D2.

Any particular reason why? Do they have a real shot at the Southland even after getting passed over for Oral Roberts and Houston Baptist? Are they really a viable independent?

No reason at all because they have independent for over 13 years now and serveral AD's and they remain hopeful.

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1036

The Sun Belt's hesitation about inviting Texas St had to do with it bad stadium, low attendance and reputation as a commuter school, much of which has been fixed or is improving, in addition the Sun Belt had a nice 10/12 split with Denver and UALR so just adding 1 school didn't make a ton of sense. Now that Denver is gone they want an 11th fb team and has said so publicly, obviously a 12th would be coming soon for the extra CCG money which they really need. And now that the WAC has tried to poach a couple of schools and CUSA has started looking their way I think grabbing to Texas schools would be in their best interest. They could always take UNCC and App St as fb onlys and go to 16 and take them in all sports after CUSA poaches a school or two...

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3757

tkalmus wrote:

The Sun Belt's hesitation about inviting Texas St had to do with it bad stadium, low attendance and reputation as a commuter school, much of which has been fixed or is improving, in addition the Sun Belt had a nice 10/12 split with Denver and UALR so just adding 1 school didn't make a ton of sense. Now that Denver is gone they want an 11th fb team and has said so publicly, obviously a 12th would be coming soon for the extra CCG money which they really need. And now that the WAC has tried to poach a couple of schools and CUSA has started looking their way I think grabbing to Texas schools would be in their best interest. They could always take UNCC and App St as fb onlys and go to 16 and take them in all sports after CUSA poaches a school or two...

I like much of this.

I do think that while a number of schools have been thrown around regarding CUSA replacements (as they will lose 3 schools), I do think the CUSA and MWC plans will start everything.

For instance, there is one scenario to consider: what if CUSA loses 3, MWC loses 3 (Boise St, AF, SDSU)...then CUSA is at 9, MWC at 7.

So you'd have some thinking to do if you are both conferences:

* Plan A: stick to the norm...CUSA adds 0-3 replacements, MWC adds 2-5 schools from a non-CUSA conference...as they'd need at least 8 all-sports members (Hawaii doesn't count).

* Plan B: is the "shake it up" scenario. If you have 9 in CUSA and 7 in MWC, and are planning a football-only merge, it might be worth exploring an all-sports merge. You'd have 16 schools, which is in no way a problem given the changing landscape with an SEC 14, ACC 14, almost had a Pac-16, Big East with 17 for non-football sports.

Then it's as simple as putting UTEP in the west division for an 8-8 split:
East: ECU, MArshall, UAB, USM, Memphis, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa
West: UTEP, UNM, Colorado St., Wyoming, UNLV, Nevada, Fresno St., *Hawaii

So for non-football, you'd have 15 in a single division like many 12+ school conferences do/did, and two 8 school divisions for football.

The basketball TV contract would likely be improved as well with coverage in all time zones.

This isn't the SEC, ACC, Pac-12...it's clearly a 2nd tier all-sports conference. But it is an all-sports conference covering the entire nation. So there is more appeal as a basketball conference than say, just MWC alone or CUSA alone.

Now on the other side of plans, there are some near locks.

If a CUSA/MWC merge for all sports (might as well keep the Conference "USA" name) is off the table, MWC will need schools fast. CUSA might as well.

CUSA would certainly put No. Texas high on the list to re-add the Dallas market. If they want an eastern push, Temple is an option too with ECU and Marshall nearby. UTSA is an option as well, despite being a newcomer, since it will be the lone FBS school in the San Antonio market.

And for the MWC, there aren't many options if due to the FB merger, CUSA schools are off the table. It means Utah St. and SJSU to get to 9. And that's about it. After that, we're talking a big step down with Idaho of into Texas with the FBS upgrades. I think if this were the case, you might even see the MWC have interest in Montana from the FCS. I mean, what is better: an FCS upgrade in Texas...so far from the footprint and not nearly a TCU level program...of someone you know in the footprint like Montana?

As for the Southland, if CUSA/MWC merge, the Southland is pretty safe. Because it would mean the WAC would be safe. But if CUSA and MWC don't merge for all-sports, it means MWC needs to add WAC schools. Which means the WAC will have to go out of it's way to find FCS upgrades and would likely sweeten the deals for Lamar and SHSU...simple because the wAC would NEED not WANT schools for football.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 469

Quinn wrote:

I do think that while a number of schools have been thrown around regarding CUSA replacements (as they will lose 3 schools), I do think the CUSA and MWC plans will start everything.

For instance, there is one scenario to consider: what if CUSA loses 3, MWC loses 3 (Boise St, AF, SDSU)...then CUSA is at 9, MWC at 7.

So you'd have some thinking to do if you are both conferences:

* Plan A: stick to the norm...CUSA adds 0-3 replacements, MWC adds 2-5 schools from a non-CUSA conference...as they'd need at least 8 all-sports members (Hawaii doesn't count).

* Plan B: is the "shake it up" scenario. If you have 9 in CUSA and 7 in MWC, and are planning a football-only merge, it might be worth exploring an all-sports merge. You'd have 16 schools, which is in no way a problem given the changing landscape with an SEC 14, ACC 14, almost had a Pac-16, Big East with 17 for non-football sports.

Then it's as simple as putting UTEP in the west division for an 8-8 split:
East: ECU, MArshall, UAB, USM, Memphis, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa
West: UTEP, UNM, Colorado St., Wyoming, UNLV, Nevada, Fresno St., *Hawaii

So for non-football, you'd have 15 in a single division like many 12+ school conferences do/did, and two 8 school divisions for football.

The basketball TV contract would likely be improved as well with coverage in all time zones.

I get where you're coming from but apart from UNLV and New Mexico, does the MWC really offer anything in terms of basketball? They certainly don't offer anything in football post Boise, AFA, and SDSU. C-USA could probably end the partnership and just take New Mexico at that point. Their football would be superior that's for sure.

Quinn wrote:

If a CUSA/MWC merge for all sports (might as well keep the Conference "USA" name) is off the table, MWC will need schools fast. CUSA might as well.

CUSA would certainly put No. Texas high on the list to re-add the Dallas market. If they want an eastern push, Temple is an option too with ECU and Marshall nearby. UTSA is an option as well, despite being a newcomer, since it will be the lone FBS school in the San Antonio market.

And for the MWC, there aren't many options if due to the FB merger, CUSA schools are off the table. It means Utah St. and SJSU to get to 9. And that's about it. After that, we're talking a big step down with Idaho of into Texas with the FBS upgrades. I think if this were the case, you might even see the MWC have interest in Montana from the FCS. I mean, what is better: an FCS upgrade in Texas...so far from the footprint and not nearly a TCU level program...of someone you know in the footprint like Montana?

N. Texas has to be a lock I think otherwise UTEP might leave for the MWC anyway. I think they'll try for N. Texas, New Mexico, and Florida International. The two western schools are to appease UTEP and FL Intl gets them a Florida influence for recruiting. I like Temple but since they probably wouldn't join full time, C-USA will probably turn them down.

Out West, the MWC will have to add SJSU, USU, NMSU, and Idaho. I too think they'll go after Montana/Montana State. Yeah they're FCS upgrades, but at least they win in FCS. That gives them 11 all sports, 12 football. They could add Denver and Seattle but they wouldn't have to.

Quinn wrote:

As for the Southland, if CUSA/MWC merge, the Southland is pretty safe. Because it would mean the WAC would be safe. But if CUSA and MWC don't merge for all-sports, it means MWC needs to add WAC schools. Which means the WAC will have to go out of it's way to find FCS upgrades and would likely sweeten the deals for Lamar and SHSU...simple because the wAC would NEED not WANT schools for football.

If the MWC comes for WAC schools the WAC is done. They need Lamar just to get to 8. If they lose 2-4 more schools, forget about it. In my above scenario you have La Tech, UTSA, and Texas State left without homes. As we all have said, it makes sense and is simple for us to just put them in the Sun Belt but with the Sun Belt footprint shrunk down do they want to re-expand it into Texas? It's something we don't know the answer to. La Tech has a spot if they want it.

So unless the MWC and C-USA merge (which results in at least Lamar gone) either the Southland gets some schools back or they aren't losing any more. The WAC does not survive without that merger.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:42 am

this is an older article found at the anygivensaturday.com message boards

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/arti ... z1YJW5pyqi

someone posted there that the BOD has approved move to D1 so the Southland could take both UNA and Incarnate Word, assuming Lamar goes to the WAC as their #8, or else they might have to chose

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7063

ACCSeahawk,
Here is update on that story out of San Antonio at http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/articl ... 393730.php

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7063

Article out of Abilene with comments from ACU AD regarding yesterday's meeting between Abilene Christian and Southland officials regarding a possible SLC invite.Link at http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/j ... ference-to

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:28 am

I hope they take both. You figure Lamar could be in the WAC soon. SLC has 11 w/ ORU and HBU now. Also Nicholls St. could drop to D-II. UNA is still floating around too.

braves86 · **Joined:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:54 pm **Posts:** 16

Here we go with UTPA....... http://m.themonitor.com/sports/southlan ... rence.html

It could really happen. Then again Mr. Burnett may not like them. Here is the blog link: http://broncs.themonitor.com/2012/01/30/big-meeting/

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1036

braves86 wrote:

Here we go with UTPA....... http://m.themonitor.com/sports/southlan ... rence.html

It could really happen. Then again Mr. Burnett may not like them. Here is the blog link: http://broncs.themonitor.com/2012/01/30/big-meeting/

Hope it happens, then we just need homes for CSUB, UVU, Chicago St, and NJIT

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:02 pm

I bet TT is gonna be mad, remember he said no way they take UTPA. I said they sure could. Wheels are in motion. I wonder if the SLC wants both Incarnate Word and ACU, which would put them at 13, taking UTPA would balance that out.

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1036

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

I bet TT is gonna be mad, remember he said no way they take UTPA. I said they sure could. Wheels are in motion. I wonder if the SLC wants both Incarnate Word and ACU, which would put them at 13, taking UTPA would balance that out.

Yeah just not sure what the overall plan is, w/ UTPA it would be a 9/12 split which would be a good stopping point 8 fb games and a bball CCG. But if they were to add ACU and IW it would be 11/14 which would be one short of the required 12 for a fb CCG which leads me to think they should go after another fb school instead of UTPA. But assuming they add all three there is still the likely possibility that Lamar (and possibily SHSU or SFA) leaves then its back down to 10/13 which would be okay if they could get UALR to join for a nice 7/7 split w/ the 7 Texas schools on one side and the LA/Ark/OK ones on the other but once again w/o UALR, UTPA makes things more complicated. I guess UTPA, CC A&M, or Oral Roberts could be looking to start football...then these numbers would make a lot more sense (10/12 12/14).

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 469

tkalmus wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

I bet TT is gonna be mad, remember he said no way they take UTPA. I said they sure could. Wheels are in motion. I wonder if the SLC wants both Incarnate Word and ACU, which would put them at 13, taking UTPA would balance that out.

Yeah just not sure what the overall plan is, w/ UTPA it would be a 9/12 split which would be a good stopping point 8 fb games and a bball CCG. But if they were to add ACU and IW it would be 11/14 which would be one short of the required 12 for a fb CCG which leads me to think they should go after another fb school instead of UTPA. But assuming they add all three there is still the likely possibility that Lamar (and possibily SHSU or SFA) leaves then its back down to 10/13 which would be okay if they could get UALR to join for a nice 7/7 split w/ the 7 Texas schools on one side and the LA/Ark/OK ones on the other but once again w/o UALR, UTPA makes things more complicated. I guess UTPA, CC A&M, or Oral Roberts could be looking to start football...then these numbers would make a lot more sense (10/12 12/14).

I thought FCS couldn't have a conference championship game.

Correction: Unless they don't want to compete in the playoffs, like the SWAC

Southland Expansion

Who is online