RT @wilnerhotline: Source: San Diego State talking to MWC about reserving spot in revamped league in case Big East doesn't work out.

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[/quote]The developments over the past 1-2 years have drawn a clear line int he sand. What many of us felt about the Big East, that they were inferior to the top 5 conferences and more on par with the MWC, is something that has become even more apparent recently.

The future is about stability.

And you now have the Pac-10 becoming the Pac-12.
You have the Big Ten+1 becoming the Big Ten +2.
You have the SEC going from 12 to 14.
You have the ACC going from 12 to 14
You have the Big 12 losing 4 members and thus far replacing them with 2 members...with it expected that within 5 years, they will be back at 12.

What do they all have in common?
Not only are they the top conferences, but they are all-sports conferences.

The rest are scrambling to at least keep where they are in the pecking order.

The Big East, already a hybrid with 16 members and only 8 for football, will now have the same non-football members, adding replacement all-sports members, and is now adding at least 3 football-only members. They HAD to make these additions (Boise St) just to have a chance to remain above the rest.

Of course, for the Big East, it was addition (maintaining stature compared to MWC and CUSA) by subtracting schools FROM those conferences, hurting CUSA and MWC.

So CUSA and MWC are now looking to work together just to keep pace the best they can.


The line has been drawn:
It is the general top group of SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC and Big 12.

You then have the Big East, trying to find a place at the table by adding the only non-BCS school with any clout, Boise St. Problem is that they also added some real dogs in the process (compared to the BCS conferences) like Memphis, Temple, etc. The goal is clearly to make money for the big East TV contract with all these additions...and to keep in the general football discussion, since the quality is not in the same league as the Power 5.


What is frustrating to all us east coasters in life, is that the Big East HAD their chance. They had Miami in their prime yet passed on Penn St in their prime.

There is no doubt that when the Big East was formed for football, that with Miami, Penn St., WVU at the top, that there would have been enough cache to get some other football powers to at least HEAVILY consider joining, schools like Florida St. (at their prime), GA Tech (same story after a national title), and Clemson. Who is to think that if this conference had added these powers, that others like a Maryland wouldn't have joined as well.

In time, a split could have happened, resulting in one of the top all-sports conferences in the nation.

And then there is Notre Dame. THIS would have been enough to push them one way or the other (BE or B10 for all sports).

So as you'll see in this thread often, it comes back to what could have been:

BIG EAST 14: All-sports conference
North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Penn St., Notre Dame, Rutgers
South: WVU, Maryland, VA Tech, Clemson, GA Tech, Miami, Florida St.


And what does that mean?

Well...

The ACC would have been SIX schools short of where they are now:
UVA, UNC, Duke, WFU, NC State

So if you're those 5 schools, you're BEGGING the Big East for an invite. So maybe yes, the Big East opts to goto 16 with a UNC/NC State package. And maybe the ACC then has to look for members in what was then in 1995 CUSA. So schools like Louisville, ECU, UCF, USM and others would be the only real ACC options.

Then there is the SEC. There's no lock they'd have had enough pull to even get a Big East school to leave, so maybe they stay at 12, or consider a UNC/NCst/Duke/UVA pair to goto 14.


But we know what happened. The Big East has to reach out to San Diego and Boise for members, as well as basically absorbing CUSA.

So yeah, very frustrating as a football fan growing up in NJ and NY, going to university in MA. Because now, that region is split between all the conferences:

ACC: BC, Syracuse, Pitt
Big East: Uconn, Temple, Rutgers, Navy
Big Ten: Penn St.
Big 12: WVU
MAC: Buffalo, Umass
Indy: Army

That's all 12 FBS schools in the region, only a few hundred miles to separate them all, yet they are in 5 different conferences with a 6th if you count "Indy" as a conference.[/quote]

The interesting thing about all of this as you ppoint out, is that the NE is the only region where the top tier football schools are not aligned. It's not a question of quality football or fan interest--Penn St, Pitt, Syracuse, BC and WVU have all had turns in the national spotlight in the last 35+ years so there is tradition--it's a question of one bad decision after another vis a vis conference leadership. The BE made tons of $$$ off their b-ball, that was their bread and butter and then the TV landscape shifted in recent years, and the conference is struggling to keep up w/ an albatross of member schools.

86, as a fellow east-coaster, and one who remembered the drama of Penn State's Big East rejection, the conference was doomed to mediocrity the moment they announced their football members, sans PSU, Army, and Navy. It didn't help that the conference begrudgingly took teams it didn't want as all-sports members, like Temple and Virginia Tech, and it also didn't help that in order to get members like Miami and West Virginia, those schools forced all-sports benefits in order to join. And Miami only went to the Big East after years of petitioning the ACC for membership. What does it say about any conference that is forced to give an all-sports invitation to a school that views you as a backup plan?

I'm not entirely sure Penn State didn't do the region a favor by stabbing it in the heart with the Big Ten membership. I mean, could you honestly see a long-term future in the following conference:

Pittsburgh
Boston College
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia
Penn State
Miami
Army
Navy
Virginia Tech/Temple

Keep in mind, Penn State played most of these programs on a yearly basis back in the 60's and 70's, and the press thought it was a weak schedule and region...

Admittedly, I thought the TCU acquisition was good for the conference. If they could have added Navy onto that, it would have been perfect. The issue was Villanova, and expecting programs to subsidize a program who's own community has fought any sort of stadium/venue enhancements.

MWC leaked the story to cause trouble w/ the BE and SDSU.

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['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

ESPN blog article discussing probable impact to BE if BCS Autobids were eliminated.Link at http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/ ... future-bcs

First off no they don't, 21K avg home games along with losing all the time, isn't name brand, isn't big time. UNLV basketball doesn't play football. They don't get to be a full BE member. There's no need to see what is in 10 years. They'll be adding #14 by 2014 to get them playing by 2015. AFA probably says yes, if they don't Fresno will. UNM? The Pit doesn't host fb games and their basketball team has never won a fbs football game either. It's not all about market, you have to had done something. Temple(got hot in fb and is good in bball, full member). Memphis(sucks at fb but great at basketball, full member). SDSU got hot and AFA said no, play in a nice stadium, in the recruiting hotbed of CA.

If the UNLV Pres said he's not going to the BE, what you say? Because he did.
You can't see the B12 inviting anyone but BSU, Cincinnati, Louisville? They've been talking w/ BYU for a year. If BYU would quit acting like they are Texas and ask for extra money and put games on BYUtv and not share then they could easily be #12 w/ UL #11.

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WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

The CSN board disagrees w/ you along w/ me. BE list is simple BYU#1(they won't go and said no) AFA#2(said no once but might go now w/ Navy) Fresno St.#3(if the others say no we're it.) UNLV does NOT have fb fans. Plus the Prez saying they won't be in separate conf. outweighs any of our opinions. Fresno market is #55 but we carry more than just our market, we have many fans as far south as Bakersfield and north into Merced and Modesto. Vegas market is #40. SJSU's is #6. No I don't think they have a chance at all, but I said if you're going to take a school that sucks at fb take the one in a top market. SDSU parlayed their last 2 years of success into a BE bid. It also helped that they are in 1 of the big 3 recruiting states. They play in a pro stadium, which they can't fill, but I guess it looks purdy to the BE.

BE fans think it seems to be a 2 team race(AFA and Fresno), funny they have a vote. AFA wants in they get #14.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=563235
There's another on the expansion board about what if Louisville goes to the B12. most of the posts are AFA and Fresno to fill.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=566861&page=3
I think they'd go AFA and a full member from the eastish for 14/18 but I'm not sure.

Here's the 2010 Attendance figures (BE), Future BE options, The Huge fan base, Big Name Brand, Who hasn't even had 1 good season like SDSU and their back to back good seasons
AF- 40,093
Hawaii- 37,311
SDSU- 34,133
Fresno- 34,120
Boise- 33,269
CSU- 22,400
NM- 20,888
UW- 20,791
UNLV- 20,612
Nevada- 19,576

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WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

You play hardball, but...I purposely did not put another Cali team in the mix, I think once SDSU is cozy in their spot in the BE. Then they'll lobby big time hard against having another California school in there. They won't want to share the FOURTH best recruiting state in the country with anybody and why should they.

Plus, unless if the Air Force Prez is lying. Didn't Air Force already turn down the B12?

And I think once there is a playoff, Call me crazy but I think Boise State can carry the Big East to a NC game and lose to SEC which will finally get that B12 letter in the mail. And if not Boise St, then Cincinatti since their near Louisville/WVU

But I don't think there will ever be a 6th California School in a "BCS" Conference in my lifetime. But if there is I'll eat my words.

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RODGERS
MATHEWS
2012

One of the things I've noticed is that the recent additions seem to have one thing in common and that is that they bring in bowl tie ins.

Memphis - Likely ensure tie in with Liberty Bowl
Boise - Humanitarian Bowl
SDSU - Poinsettia Bowl
Navy - Military Bowl

There have been efforts to start a Cure bowl at the campus of UCF. Houston and SMU will bring in at least one tie in to a Texas bowl game.

This obviously wouldn't be the deciding factor for a 14th member but it could give a school a leg up. Air Force is the clear cut number one especially since they probably bring in the Armed Forces Bowl. After that, the next best option isn't really clear. I know FSA says it's his Bulldogs, but I'm really not convinced either. I think it's probably between three schools: Fresno, UNLV, and Hawaii.

From there it's tough. Fresno is a smaller market but they definitely carry it. I believe Hawaii is a similar size and they also carry that market well. Las Vegas is certainly larger but people there don't really care about sports. UNLV pres says he won't be in two conferences but until that offer is actually on the table, I'm not sure I really believe he'd turn down more money. UNLV and Hawaii both bring bowl tie ins to the Big East, something they would need if they expand to 14. Hawaii has the obvious distance issue which would probably be the reason they don't get in, but it is football only.

Not that any of this matters. Once Boise has to go back to the MWC this thing is over anyway.

You should also start your post telling that guy you're a major hater of Fresno St., you even started a thread about your 1 win over us in the last 20 years on here. Which really has nothing to do w/ a realignment board.
Didn't the SDSU back to the MWC get shot down yesterday?( I wish you were right though, my mind rejects SDSU and BSU being BE members) BSU is only good at football, so as long as that's making money and the WAC has 7 other warm bodies, UVU, UTPA, CSUB and the leftovers, they'll stay, I think. Hawaii is another good option, it's just so damn far even from CA. It's not like they are part of Catalina Island. So you're saying we need to bring back the Raisin Bowl to get in? You better bring back the Fresno St. invitational (Silicon Valley Bowl) . Still the UNLV Prez could have said, I'm not going to discuss the BE, we're moving forward w/ the Alliance/MWC. He didn't, he flat out said we won't split up sports and hurt bball. BW or WAC hurt bball. Vegas cares about sports, their football team is USC and UNLV is their basketball team. Since UNLV fb sucks, everyone hits the casinos during the games.

Temple, no bowl, got in.
Another thing is that w/ the fb only adds you want to get decent schools on the field. Most of the world sees the BE as CUSA 2.0 now. They are way behind the other 5 conf. now. UNM, UNLV bottom feeders, would drag the perception down further. AFA, Fresno, Hawaii, are the only decent fb schools out of the All sports footprint. SJSU only averaged 2,900 less fans a game than UNLV last year, so if it's all about market than SJSU#6>UNLV#40.

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NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

Man, that thread was a joke, you weren't really mad about that were you? I didn't hide the fact that it was the first time in 20 years we won in Fresno. It made no difference who won anyway. Not like a bowl game was on the line.

But there in lies the big issue. Will the WAC actually get 7 bodies? These are the only schools that would be possible since no one would leave a stable conference for the WAC at this point.

Idaho - Assume they stay FBS so they're stuck here
Louisiana Tech - Sun Belt or C-USA if they're lucky
Utah State - MWC
San Jose State -MWC
New Mexico State - Stuck
Texas State - Probably Sun Belt to replace loss of N. Texas
UTSA - C-USA, Sun Belt worst case
Boise State - Staying
Texas-Arlington - Announced they will leave if WAC loses another school, SB or Southland
Denver - Summit invite could come after A-10 expands
Seattle - Stuck here unless BYU moves to Big 12. Then maybe WCC invite
Chicago State - Far away but beggers can't be choosers. But could also get a Summit invite depending on A-10 trickle down
NJ Tech - American East invite likely coming after CAA response to A-10 raid
Texas Pan American - Would probably take WAC invite, but want Southland
Utah Valley State - Would take WAC invite
Cal State Bakersfield - Would they join a conference so spread out when they have so many schools they can schedule non conference out of the WCC and Big West? I doubt it.
New Orleans - Probably headed to the Southland which would give that conference 12 and easy divisional split.

So best case you have:
Idaho
New Mexico State
Boise State
Seattle
Chicago State (Summit will take at least Chi St or Den the other in WAC)
Texas Pan American (SL will take NO or UTPA, the other in WAC)
Utah Valley State
Cal State Bakersfield

So that's 8 plus potentially Air Force. Worst case though Chicago State and UTPA get other invites, and CSUB turns the WAC down. And worse yet, if the MWC loses a member, that takes them to 8/9. Would they stay there or would they invite Idaho or NMSU to get to 9/10 again (with the real reason to kill the WAC and force everyone back to the MWC)? Personally, if I was the commissioner and the WAC got down to 8 schools, I would invite NMSU and Seattle just to nudge it off that cliff.

so if it's all about market than SJSU#6>UNLV#40...stop staying that!..if it is all about market then Colombia#1>USC#2 do you know how ridiculous that sounds. It's UNLV>SJSU because MWC>WAC. It's UNLV>Fresno St because if you go to Downtown NYC or a Wal-Mart in Ohio if you ask a stranger not a person from CSN who UNLV is they'll say "oh, those Rebel Guys!" If you ask them who Fresno State is, they'll say "Who?" A guy said it best on the link you sent me. " Fresno st, I thought they were division II?" The poll was Air Force vs Fresno St. Air Force rightly one like the should of. If the Poll was UNLV vs Fresno St. I believe that UNLV would win too. I really do. I don't dislike Fresno St or Like UNLV. I still think that UNLV is a better choice then Fresno St for a BE addition. You can't change my mind about it.

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RODGERS
MATHEWS
2012

You don't know anything about the CSU system which SDSU and Fresno are a part of, they all are required to vote for a sister school if there is a vote on them. It doesn't matter than Fresno fans hate SJSU fans but if they come up for a MWC/Alliance invite Fresno is required to vote yes. What does Air Force turning down the Big 12 have to do w/ them joining the BE? NOTHING! They turned down the BE before Navy said yes, now as long as they're okay w/ being in the WAC for other sports then they'll say yes. You should also know the BE won't be catering to SDSU, but they'd be more concerned w/ BSU. They'd be most concerned w/ their on field product and money making potential. Which is still AFA, Fresno, and if they think Hawaii could work, then throw them in. I'm not sure if you're a troll or if you just don't understand expansion, yet post like you know more than the rest of us.

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WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

Of course it was a joke. SJSU>Fresno St., I think only freightdog from the WAC board actually believes that. Maybe not even him. I like you better than the new guy with his "are you serious" way of reasoning. Can't have 6 BCS schools in CA(Might not even be a BCS, with this 4 team playoff talk) BSU will go to the title game then go to the B12, if BSU doesn't, Cincinnati (he always spells it wrong) will go to the B12 because they're close to Louisville, & WVU. So that's the new criteria. Memphis is close to UL and closer to most of the rest of the schools, so they must be a candidate . Now if Cincy is awesome for the next few years, sure they have a shot. I don't know why he makes all these references about BSU, Cincy to B12 and AFA saying no to the B12 when we were talking about who the western add would be to the BE.

WAC Future
Idaho
NMSU
Seattle
Denver(I don't know if they'd want all that travel the other way to another conf of nothing special)
Boise St.
Air Force(MVC, said no, WCC? maybe but they already went to 10)
UVU
UTPA
CSUB(seems west enough for them, gives them an AQ for their programs)
Grand Canyon (wants to move up from D-II, this would be their only option)
Technically this is a conference

Gone

UTA(SBC? back to SLC?)
SJSU(MWC)
USU(MWC)
La Tech(CUSA or SBC)
Texas St.(SBC)
UTSA(MWC,CUSA,SBC)

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WRANGLERS 153-55-1 CVFL CHAMPS '04 '05 '09 '12

NFL CHAMPS '29 '30 '31 '36 '39 '44 '61 '62 '65 '66 '67 '96 '10

BW/WAC/MWC CHAMPS '77 '82 '85 '88 '89 '91 '92 '93 '99 '12
['08 NCAA BASEBALL CHAMPS]

Woah, Woah, Woah, Simmer down. No need to call names, I'm not calling you names, I'm just trying to have a friendly debate here.
Relax were both Packer and College Football Fans here. I'm just standing by my outragous claims that I think that UNLV has a real shot in the New Big East. But obviously you can't handle a debate. So I'm done debating you for right now...

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RODGERS
MATHEWS
2012