Lash, agree with much you conveyed. I don't think the B12 has closed off future expansion, but have decided to wait. When the new commish is on-board, current format is fully assimulated, TCU & WVU get well incorporated, and more clarity emerges with the BCS/potential playoff situation, I expect further expansion will get addressed later, whether they ultimately do so or not. It's not as if the B12 has to scramble right now; prospects shall still be there later, and no other top BCS conference is expanding at this time. In a few years, and looking stable, the B12 could look attractive to several more good prospects not often mentioned on the popular list.

Cutter, I can't say I largely disagree with your basic premise. Deemed value of a particular school is often situational, and there is some variation on what major conferences seek.

The cultural stuff can get over-stated. It comes down to who can deliver....fans, TV, success, footprint objectives, etc. With, for example, Clemson and BC in the same ACC division, it's not all fried chicken vs. clam chowder.

What happens if the BCS post season decisions cause Notre Dame to consider joining a conference? http://articles.southbendtribune.com/20 ... football/2

Big East? No chance

ACC? Would be a more easy path to the BCS football championship game.

Big Ten? Most likely choice because many of Notre Dame best rivalry games are in the Big 10. Although Pitt, Boston College, and Miami have been good rivalry games in the past for Notre Dame. None compare to Michigan/ND which could continue OOC possibly if Notre Dame join say the ACC.

Pac 12? Probably too far west

SEC? This one would be a shocker however just too tough of path in football

Big 12? This one is interesting scenario. If Notre Dame has to give up independence the one remaining resemblance of independence could be a Notre Dame network for Tier 3 sports. My understanding is a Tier 3 network is only possible in the Big 12 as the Big Ten network has Tier 3 rights for Big Ten members, ACC has rights to tier 3 for ACC members, and Pac 12 has rights to Pac 12 members for Tier 3. Not sure about SEC tier 3 rights.

Regardless if the ACC, SEC, Pac 12 want to create a conference network similar to the Big Ten, would require giving up tier 3 rights? IF yes, the only option for Notre Dame to creates its own exclusive network would be the Big 12?

Notre Dame is probably the one school that could get a large group of people watch some non revenue varsity sports matchups with any consistency.

Lots of dominos could fall depending on which direction Notre Dame would take if the school joined a conference.

If Notre Dame joined the most likely of conference the Big Ten, which school would the Big Ten go for number 14?

Missouri which has long been interested in joining the Big Ten. Would they bolt the SEC to join the Big Ten. I think that would be a very good possibility if the Big Ten were interested in Missouri. What would the SEC do if Missouri bolted. Would the SEC raid the ACC for Florida State or Virginia Tech? What would the ACC do if the SEC raided the conference to replace a team going to the SEC?

I don’t think it would be out of question for Notre Dame to seriously consider the Big 12. Requiting into Texas would be a major benefit for Notre Dame which the school has already scheduled some OOC games in Texas for this very benefit.

If Notre Dame could greatly benefit from having a its own network for tier 3 sports and the Big 12 was the only conference that could provide this exclusive benefit, why would the school not consider the Big 12? Divisions would be aligned perfectly for the north division by allowing Notre Dame to be an anchor team which would further stroke the ego of the school and its fan base.

North: Notre Dame, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, WVU, Louisville

South: Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma

Just when we thought this summer could be boring with expansion, there may be some fireworks after all.

I think culture is a bigger player in the realignment saga than other points, and often gets lost in the discussion when explaining conference shifts.

For the Big XII and WVU, why people think WVU is more like Houston, Memphis, or UCF than Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or Texas Tech is beyond me. One conference clearly built itself up on larger public institutions while the other resisted big public schools.

BYU is sort of like adding another Baylor or TCU, but BYU is closer to being "Big Mormon State U." than it is "Salt Lake City Mormon Commuter College."

For whatever the talk is worth, were it not so untenable, I've long thought Wyoming would have made for a good B12 school. They have enjoyed a great history of playing Big 8-12 programs and culturally fit the "heartland red" type. It's just a shame they're so small and insignificant. UNM would be good, too...terrible football. UNR is just plain small and new, and CSU is too "liberal."

Since the #10 spot in the B12 was between WVU and Louisville, it appears L'ville is the prime and WILLING choice to be #11. The Big10 functioned fine at 11 for a long time. Round-robin fb may be reduced by a conference opponent or two per year, but playing all in season is more of a desire than a must. It could produce another bowl assurance.
While Louisville may not be perfectly grand, they certainly pass general acceptablity criteria OK, and would be a bit of a bridge to WVU.

My thought is if the intention is to truly add Louisville, why not sooner than later, and let them get ingrained in the B12 already for cultivating rivalries and building stability. Then, the B12 can take its time in finding that "near perfect" #12 if they want divisions and a re-newed CCG. Agree, perhaps, at that time, the B12 could be in play as much as others if the slight chance ND decides to join an all-sports arrangement. If not, the B12 may find another they really want and is willing.

Just because #10 of the last expansion came down between WVU and Louisville doesn't mean Louisville will be the obvious #11 for the next round. Keep in mind that both schools were apparently very far down the list of desired members, including BYU, AFA, Arkansas, and Pitt. I suspect that if the conference really wants someone, like BYU or AFA, they'll continue to ask them, just like the Big East has tried for Army and Navy.

I don't envy the Big XII's next expansion. They will always be at the mercy of the greener pastures of the PAC, B1G, and SEC, and whatever Big East programs they could poach would probably rather be in the ACC. This is sort of why BYU is the Big XII's best option, with #12 being a "throwaway" for either BYU's travel partner, or a school in a big DMA that has NO shot of turning tail on the conference (Rice or Tulane).

Sec02, I agree with all of your comments and bringing on Louisville into the Big 12 sooner than later would be a very good idea especially if the Big 12 goal is to eventually get back to a full set of 12 members.

While I personally like the idea of the Big 12 remaining with its current 10 member format and round robin sports in both football and basketball, , it is probably a better option to have 12 schools in today’s college conference alignment environments. It is basically keeping up with the Jones of college conferences and similar to why the Pac 10 became the Pac 12. This type of format with a championship football game at the end of the season has more of a modern look and fill about it..

There is one more interesting scenario of expanding to 12 schools which could include Louisville as the obvious 11th member and taking Tulane for 12.

The USA has a major task of trying to figure out the best method to become energy efficient in today’s world. The state of West Virginia like the state of Texas have some of the top energy fossil fuel reserves in the world. If you add another energy producing state such as Louisiana with a top notch academic school such as Tulane, the Big 12 could create and energy consortium to look for ways to fund research of new methods to create clean and efficient energy in the USA. The states of Oklahoma and Kentucky are huge energy producing states as well. If you want to add Kansas and Iowa for benefits of turning corn into fuel, every Big 12 school would be located in states with interest benefited from energy research. Maybe the Big 12 could create the Big Ten version of research Consortium with and emphases on energy.

Another possibility of convincing the Big 12 to expand is idea of getting the BCS and NCAA to change the rule of requiring two divisions for the championship game. I can’t see a rule change allow 10 schools to play a CCG, I do see a change in format that would allow the top two schools in a league to play the end of season CCG verses the top two teams of each division. This would avoid some of the concerns past Big 12 schools faced with the possibility of losing to a much lower division winner and missing out on the BCS championship game. It would also help with issues in ensuring Texas and Oklahoma get to play every year and also include other conference rivalries on the schedule with more flexibility.

Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
West Virginia
Louisville
Tulane

One division for all sports united for energy research or other academic research sharing the same ideas for athletics excellence just may convince the league expanding back to 12 schools is a bright idea for the future.

Tulane does keep popping up in speculation among B12 expansion scenarios. OU and Texas, etc. may see New Orleans as a great nearby trip with frequent wins. Tulane has struggled in fb since the days of Tommy Bowden, and later was hit with Katrina. Men's bb at Tulane has also had some recent struggles. Rice in Houston is the only former SWC school that has not worked itself back into a current, BCS associated conference. Rice has outstanding academics---dandy music program among the offerings----but are one of the very smallest in undergraduate student-body size. They are very expensive. Rice has a very good baseball program, winning a NC a few years back.

Tulane would make sense as to location and academic appeal. The question is, can they improve their fb (and maybe bb) along with other sports offerings to a level they would be competitive for the B12 and not regulated to being a punching bag regularly? That's hard to do as a private school in
CUSA. It appears their ability to build is limited unless they are invited to a higher level first.

Lash, your point on energy studies is worth noting. As to the corn belt, didn't Congress decide not to renew federal subsidies for ethanol, citing the great expense for conversion?
That "M" shell per natural gas could prove huge in WV, PA, Kentucky, and nearby. Of course environmental studies also may go hand in hand with the new energy thrust which will yield much assortment to do. Some areas of WV have already had some conflicts happening.
Okla. State has an enhanced focus on energy research. They can thank T. Boone Pickens in part.

Tulane gets its name mentioned in these conference expansion matters for a lot of reasons: former SEC member, NOLA/Sugar Bowl, strong academic institution, and that they are recommitting to athletics again (when they de-committed, they left the SEC). I posit that Tulane also gets a lot of good talk because it has a generally affluent, though small, alumni base, AND sits in one of the hottest recruiting territories in the US. Not that Tulane has any MAJOR pull in the Texarkana region, or MS, but it would put the Big XII into the SEC territory as a "yang" to the SEC's A&M "yin."

Rice gets into these things for the same reason. However, Rice already has some very strong allies in the Big XII that make them even more likely a candidate.

I don't like either of their chances, but given this conference, it's more likely to make the mistake of snubbing a New Mexico for a Tulane or Rice...in other words, "pull a Big East."

Albuquerque is very nice and New Mexico is a beautiful and growing state.

There is a reason why New Mexico always gets snubbed in conference alignment. New Mexico is a basketball first school and that is just not good enough in today’s football driven world.

Tulane may not be either a basketball or football school, the school is building a new on campus stadium which is showing some renewed support for football.

I am not sure Tulane will ever receive Big 12 membership, I am sure New Mexico will never get to play with the big boys of college football until the school makes a stronger commitment in football.

They will, after UT/Tech/OU/OSU go west, then Tulane, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, UTEP, and New Mexico will all get their invites

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Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...

Please stop with the go west and Pac 12 becoming the Pac 16. That ship has long sense sailed. You may want to change your outdated logo!

The Pac 12 realized with new contracts they did not need Texas after all to catch up with the Big Ten revenue. This avoided all the drama with taking Texas , the LHN, and all the tag along schools that would have been required and were not desired for many factors including academics..

Pac 12 do not need or want Texas due to the possibility of creating a Pac 12 network, ditto ACC, Big Ten already there.

Texas is sort of stuck in the Big 12 because no other conference wants or needs the University of Texas. Well maybe Notre Dame and the Big East would take you in.

If Texas hooks up with Notre Dame or goes independent maybe a New Mexico type schools could be added as replacement.

Like I said earlier, I don't envy the Big XII's task. I don't disagree with you about Tulane. It used to sit in a big chair, and it knows how to run a big-time athletics program (well, big time for the 50's and 60's). The problem is: sure, Tulane could reinvest in athletics and broadcast it to the world...who's to say they won't pull the elitist card again and say the "sports culture" isn't for them? We don't know. It's the same for Rice. And both schools are starting to "ramp up" again, which I take to mean as big fighting words and a major tell for future expansion. Schools like that don't expand without a mission...these are Southern Ivy's...they are very much in play. Being private institutions, they don't have to say a word, which means they can talk freely with all of the conferences, and not expect to say or produce a thing about it.

lash- embrace the winky face and my "logo" will never change, I think the PAC16 would be the best for my school, so why change it just because it can't happen until 6-10 years later.

I think you're wrong, if you think that the SEC and ACC going to 14 won't eventually be 16 and that the Big Ten and PAC 12 won't react, they did last time and will do so again. The rust belt is dying so they will need new markets sooner or later and the West isn't any more relevant by adding Utah and Colorado. Also ND's post season involvement may push them into a conference sooner or later once again changing the status quo.

"no other conference wants or needs the University of Texas" umm...doesn't need...fine, but everyone on here knows that every conference wants and would take Texas (just like they would ND), just not with the LHN, you show your bias by denying that. That being said Texas won't go anywhere for at least 6 years since they tied their 1st/2nd tier TV rights in the the Big 12.

This abrasive rudeness by many posters is getting real old, this place has become more and more a dumbed down message board where ideas, suggestions, and even jokes^ are attacked rather than discussed and I find myself visiting this site less and less each day (not to mention the fact the its become near impossible to access from my iPhone since the mobile site constantly kicks me out of the forum pages and no one seems to care). I honestly don't mind defending my school against anything you throw at it, but the tone of this site has become more and more hostile. If I wanted that, I'd just go to the NCAABB boards (which I don't). I think I'm going to take a break from here and just lurk around from time to time and then hopefully one day everything will calm down.

Hook'em

Trey...

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Fan of the Big 12 Conference, the Mountain West Conference and...

I wouldn't rule it out. Once the Big 12 TV deal is up (and the death-penalty type exit fees), it could still happen. If the Pac-12 is successful with it's TV model and climbs even further up in per-school revenue, there is no reason to think that Texas and OU wouldn't revisit the idea...or that the Pac-12 would consider it if it means dominating in the Texas/Oklahoma area.

Probable? No. But possible, still yes. Let's just say the B12Four leaving for the Pac-12, something that almost happened twice, is still more likely than say an ACC school joining the SEC...so that type of move did not come close to happening this past year.

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With the B12 having lost 4 prime state schools to 3 other BCS conferences in the last couple of years, certainly the B12 was jolted. Those that left were not the only ones looking. Texas, Oklahoma, and some sister-school company (and Texas A&M made it clear they were not a tag-along) could now be elsewhere if matters such as the LHN demands and "package" transitions were dropped from the pursuit. I believe the B12 is trying to survive and restore their stability while elevating further their prestige. Otherwise, why would they have gone as far as West Virginia to add and that was to just get back to 10 along with TCU.

For now, the B12 does not have great choices to add.......getting down to speculating about Rice, Tulane, and New Mexico. Louisville may still be the best available and willing for the next few years.

The B12 is being cautious and conservative. If the new Commissioner is able to placate, bond, and make wise choices, good things are in store.

Those 10 B12 schools may ultimate have different preferences than what others see as the popular choices. Considering the geographic scope and some diversity in institutional types, the B12 could have its challenges in reaching consensus on expansion. That's certainly where a clever and forthright Commissioner may earn his/her pay.

Frankly, I hope BCS conferences don't jump to 16, at least not at this time. The SEC seems comfortable to let 14 work, and there could be formidable resistance to try to go further unless the landscape dramatically changes elsewhere. The ACC appears not to want to make the first move to 16, focusing more on keeping whom they have happy and incorporating new additions ('Cuse & Pitt when they get onboard). With the B1G-Pac12 coop thrust, they may also be saying "we are not expanding".

I agree with Lash on the point, the PAC16 proposal is shot-down, old news. Quinn's point is noted. Certainly, old/revised scenarios can re-emerge.

The B12 is one of the top players, they can sustain and build on it. The demise of the old SWC still has ghosts lurking.