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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:44 am 
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wbyeager wrote:
So if one of IUPUI, IPFW, or Oakland takes Butler's spot in the Horizon League, how would the Summit League react?

The remaining schools woud be:
2 of IUPUI/IPFW/Oakland
WIU/UKMC
Nebraska-Omaha/South Dakota
South Dakota State/North Dakota State

If the Summit could get the MVFC to add North Dakota (Big Sky) and Eastern Illinois (OVC), it would keep all of the I-29 corridor schools paired togehter, and give WIU a better in-conference rival.

Bellarmine would likely want to go to the Atlantic Sun with Northern Kentucky, who just joined that conference.

Minnesota State (Mankato), Minnesota-Duluth, and Saint Cloud State would probably be interested, but all would need to figure out what to do with their football programs as well. The SL might not want to take on any more upgrades from Division II as well.

If the conference is ready to make amends with Chicago State, they could work instead of Eastern Illinois, but that would complicate North Dakota's football situation.



All makes sense. Would love to see the MVFC get comfortable with a #12 school to open up the door for North Dakota, to unify the 4 Dakota schools. But as we know, finding a good #12 has been the big issue.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:16 am 
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Could North Dakota move all but FB to Summit, and stay FB affiliate in Big Sky ?

Might CAA FB invite Youngstown State. opening up MVFC #10 for North Dakota ?

Suppose Horizon invited ALL of IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland.

The center of the conference moves west into the plains.....
Summit might need to think bigger in terms of expansion.....
such as: North Dakota, Denver, UVU, UALR, Southeast MO State (?)


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Some food for thought...

If the Summit League loses a school to the Horizon (to replace Butler), it seems the top candidates would be IUPUI (to replace lost Indy market) or Oakland.

So the Summit, already losing Oral Roberts and SUU, would be down to 8 schools.

So if you're the Summit, doe you consider the same D2 hopefuls, none of which has pulled the trigger on an upgrade?

Or do you maybe consider a western expansion to bail out WAC schools?

And if you're the WAC schools, do you consider replacing lost schools, knowing others like Texas-Arlington will be leaving (either Sun Belt or Southland) will jump at the first chance?


So I bring you the Summit western expansion scenario:


Summit League:

WEST:
Boise St.
Idaho
Utah Valley
Denver
Nebraska-Omaha
University of Missouri–Kansas City

EAST:
North Dakota State University
University of South Dakota
South Dakota State University
Western Illinois University
Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne
Oakland University


You have options of a standard 1 division of 12 or to split into divisions to cut back on travel. So The 6 division schools would have home and homes for basketball for 10 games and then play the other division schools once for 16 total conference games.


Option #2:


Summit League:

WEST:
Boise St.
Idaho
Denver
North Dakota State University
University of South Dakota
South Dakota State University

EAST:
Nebraska-Omaha
University of Missouri–Kansas City
Western Illinois University
Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne
Oakland University
* DIVISION 2 UPGRADE FROM THE REGION

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
Some food for thought...

If the Summit League loses a school to the Horizon (to replace Butler), it seems the top candidates would be IUPUI (to replace lost Indy market) or Oakland.

So the Summit, already losing Oral Roberts and SUU, would be down to 8 schools.

So if you're the Summit, doe you consider the same D2 hopefuls, none of which has pulled the trigger on an upgrade?

Or do you maybe consider a western expansion to bail out WAC schools?

And if you're the WAC schools, do you consider replacing lost schools, knowing others like Texas-Arlington will be leaving (either Sun Belt or Southland) will jump at the first chance?


So I bring you the Summit western expansion scenario:


Summit League:

WEST:
Boise St.
Idaho
Utah Valley
Denver
Nebraska-Omaha
University of Missouri–Kansas City

EAST:
North Dakota State University
University of South Dakota
South Dakota State University
Western Illinois University
Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne
Oakland University


You have options of a standard 1 division of 12 or to split into divisions to cut back on travel. So The 6 division schools would have home and homes for basketball for 10 games and then play the other division schools once for 16 total conference games.


Option #2:


Summit League:

WEST:
Boise St.
Idaho
Denver
North Dakota State University
University of South Dakota
South Dakota State University

EAST:
Nebraska-Omaha
University of Missouri–Kansas City
Western Illinois University
Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne
Oakland University
* DIVISION 2 UPGRADE FROM THE REGION


that might work. obviously with some tweaks, ie, NMSU and Seattle's inclusion, Oakland's exit, etc. The thing is, the Summit had a conference RPI of 16 this year and the WAC was 12. Those are significantly better rankings than the Big Sky, Big West, etc. As an Oly only superconference it will protect from losing autobids if it should be poached again. As long as the division format can be worked out and agreed upon, this could be a decent mid mjor conference


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:49 pm 
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BSU is doing all it can to be in the BW now. They don't want to send all of their sports to the east. AFA would also be on the summit list if they go to the BE for fb.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Why does everybody think the Summit will go after schools in the Mountain and Pacific time zone? I get there aren't a lot of conferences out there to throw in these non-fb schools into but the Summit is stable and besides their "history" of going west. A few years ago they were one step behind the Great West with a group of crazy members that had no rhyme or reason to be together but now they have a solid geographical footprint, that has only got tighter. So why would they consider adding Boise St, Air Force, Denver, Seattle, Idaho, or Utah Valley when Chicago St, North Dakota, and reasonable DII upgrades like UM-St Louis, Bellarmine, NKU, as well as others from the GLVC, GLIAC, NSIC, and the MAIAA?

I don't understand how the minor increase they may get in a radio or regional TV contract by adding the westerners, justifies increasing there travel budget in every sport. If its an RPI thing then I guess I could see an argument but still the Summit will always be a "one bid league", if they started getting 2 or 3 regularly then they'd get poached by the OVC, MVC, or Horizon.

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 Post subject: Summit League Expansion
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:11 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Why does everybody think the Summit will go after schools in the Mountain and Pacific time zone? I get there aren't a lot of conferences out there to throw in these non-fb schools into but the Summit is stable and besides their "history" of going west. A few years ago they were one step behind the Great West with a group of crazy members that had no rhyme or reason to be together but now they have a solid geographical footprint, that has only got tighter. So why would they consider adding Boise St, Air Force, Denver, Seattle, Idaho, or Utah Valley when Chicago St, North Dakota, and reasonable DII upgrades like UM-St Louis, Bellarmine, NKU, as well as others from the GLVC, GLIAC, NSIC, and the MAIAA?

I don't understand how the minor increase they may get in a radio or regional TV contract by adding the westerners, justifies increasing there travel budget in every sport. If its an RPI thing then I guess I could see an argument but still the Summit will always be a "one bid league", if they started getting 2 or 3 regularly then they'd get poached by the OVC, MVC, or Horizon.

I don't think anyone thinks they will. But if the Summit is desperate, where else can they turn. 5 of their most recent members came from D2. Denver would be a coup in comparison ;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
Why does everybody think the Summit will go after schools in the Mountain and Pacific time zone? I get there aren't a lot of conferences out there to throw in these non-fb schools into but the Summit is stable and besides their "history" of going west. A few years ago they were one step behind the Great West with a group of crazy members that had no rhyme or reason to be together but now they have a solid geographical footprint, that has only got tighter. So why would they consider adding Boise St, Air Force, Denver, Seattle, Idaho, or Utah Valley when Chicago St, North Dakota, and reasonable DII upgrades like UM-St Louis, Bellarmine, NKU, as well as others from the GLVC, GLIAC, NSIC, and the MAIAA?

I don't understand how the minor increase they may get in a radio or regional TV contract by adding the westerners, justifies increasing there travel budget in every sport. If its an RPI thing then I guess I could see an argument but still the Summit will always be a "one bid league", if they started getting 2 or 3 regularly then they'd get poached by the OVC, MVC, or Horizon.

I don't think anyone thinks they will. But if the Summit is desperate, where else can they turn. 5 of their most recent members came from D2. Denver would be a coup in comparison ;)

It's more thinking along these lines, if the HL takes 3 where at least Oakland, IUPUI, and or IPFW are gone. If 2 of those 3 go, Summit would be down to 7 w/ Bellarmine, Chicago St. as the only geographical options. NKU won't shift sideways after Summit loses a couple members. UMSL or any other school from D-II in the area is ready to move up. Maybe S.Indiana but I've heard nothing new about them since 2007 on thinking of moving. St.Cloud St. was the NSIC school looking at D-I last year but decided to keep fb and stay D-II. GLIAC have none wanting to move up Wayne St. thought about it in 2004 then backed out. I think all of these midwest schools that have fb don't have a fb home in D-I so they won't move. MVFC is the only option and they like 10. If the MVFC got UND and a D-II school then they could go w/ 12 but I think there are too many moving parts to sync MVFC, Summit and UND together.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:35 am 
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Article out of FtWayne discussing "possibility" of one or more Summit League schools moving to the Horizon League at http://www.journalgazette.net/article/2 ... 5/SPORTS03


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Suppose the Summit were to lose Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI to the Horizon.

Eastern-most remaining school is Western Illinois.
The Summit is now a "Great Plains" conference, with members in Illinois, Missouri, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota.
Eastern Colorado is hardly stretching the footprint.

I think:
North Dakota (having resolved their nickname issues, and needing a FB home)
Denver
Air Force (if they joined the BE for FB) would be prime candidates.

SEMo is the NW end of the OVC footprint, and maybe they would consider a move (they'd be at the SE end of the Summit...). It never hurts to ask.

Yes the old Mid-Con was a mess and Centenary (in Louisiana) and Southern Utah) were far removed form their closest neighbor.
In 1-AA (or FCS), geography DOES matter. Travel costs are not insignificant.
For those reasons, I'm thinking Seattle and Idaho and PROBABLY UVU are not worth considering. They would fit better in the Big Sky.


I came back to this thread because I think Horizon must be thinking about replacing Butler, and the leading candidates are in the Summit.
The Summit needs to be formulating their expansion strategy NOW. They could be down to 6-8 members in the very near future.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Assuming that IUPUI, IPFW & OU leave for the Horizon; the following radical realignment is the best I think the SL could go to (a lot of pieces to fall in place):

1. Add Chicago St. (yes, I know their past history), but at least it adds a school in the Chicago market.
2. Add UND, gives you a FCS FB school, gets UND in a conference with its neighbors and gets the BSC to 12 members.
3. Add Denver with the demise of the WAC
4. Raid the OVC for SEMO, SIUE & EIU for FCS FB schools and to round out the conference.

New Alignment would be:

West (Plains) Division

1. Denver
2. UNO
3. UND
4. NDSU
5. SD
6. SDSU

East (Prairie) Division

1. UMKC
2. SEMO
3. SIUE
4. WIU
5. CSU
6. EIU

The conference remains geographically sensible, has some large city markets (Chicago, *STL (SIUE), KC & Denver), is/maintains a competitive balance with some state universities, regional/directional state universities, etc. Finally, it creates a FCS FB League.

SL FB Conference =

1. UND
2. NDSU
3. SD
4. SDSU
5. UNO *Bring the program back, does this require State of Nebraska approval?
6. SEMO
7. WIU
8. EIU
9. Valpo *Associate Member: I believe non-scholly FCS conferences/teams are now eligible for the playoffs. Valpo remains in Horizon for all others.

MVC FB would then become:

1. Drake (Same reason as Valpo)
2.UNI
3. MSU
4. SIU
5. ISUR
6. ISUB
7. YSU (Becomes full MVC Member w/ SLU for 12 Team Conference)
8. Butler - Assoc. Member (Same reason as Valpo, remains in A10 for others)
9. Dayton - Assoc. Member (Same reason as Valpo, remains in A10 for others)

The rest of the MVC members would be (Divisions TBD):

8. Creighton
9 .WSU
10. SLU
11. Bradley
12. Evansville

Horizon would then be:

1. UWGB
2. UWM
3. Loyola
4. UIC
5. Valpo
6. IUPUI
7. IPFW
8. OU
9. Detriot
10. CSU
11. WSU

Dare I say thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:04 pm 
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illineck wrote:
Assuming that IUPUI, IPFW & OU leave for the Horizon; the following radical realignment is the best I think the SL could go to (a lot of pieces to fall in place):

1. Add Chicago St. (yes, I know their past history), but at least it adds a school in the Chicago market.
2. Add UND, gives you a FCS FB school, gets UND in a conference with its neighbors and gets the BSC to 12 members.
3. Add Denver with the demise of the WAC
4. Raid the OVC for SEMO, SIUE & EIU for FCS FB schools and to round out the conference.

New Alignment would be:

West (Plains) Division

1. Denver
2. UNO
3. UND
4. NDSU
5. SD
6. SDSU

East (Prairie) Division

1. UMKC
2. SEMO
3. SIUE
4. WIU
5. CSU
6. EIU

The conference remains geographically sensible, has some large city markets (Chicago, *STL (SIUE), KC & Denver), is/maintains a competitive balance with some state universities, regional/directional state universities, etc. Finally, it creates a FCS FB League.

SL FB Conference =

1. UND
2. NDSU
3. SD
4. SDSU
5. UNO *Bring the program back, does this require State of Nebraska approval?
6. SEMO
7. WIU
8. EIU
9. Valpo *Associate Member: I believe non-scholly FCS conferences/teams are now eligible for the playoffs. Valpo remains in Horizon for all others.

MVC FB would then become:

1. Drake (Same reason as Valpo)
2.UNI
3. MSU
4. SIU
5. ISUR
6. ISUB
7. YSU (Becomes full MVC Member w/ SLU for 12 Team Conference)
8. Butler - Assoc. Member (Same reason as Valpo, remains in A10 for others)
9. Dayton - Assoc. Member (Same reason as Valpo, remains in A10 for others)

The rest of the MVC members would be (Divisions TBD):

8. Creighton
9 .WSU
10. SLU
11. Bradley
12. Evansville

Horizon would then be:

1. UWGB
2. UWM
3. Loyola
4. UIC
5. Valpo
6. IUPUI
7. IPFW
8. OU
9. Detriot
10. CSU
11. WSU

Dare I say thoughts?


Dare I say dream conf. thread is where this belongs.

Why would OVC schools leave for the Summit that just lost 3 members according to you, and add more travel? They wouldn't

The MVC will never allow the Summit to sponsor fb. They'd add a couple of Summit members just to make sure it would never get off the ground. Valpo is non scholly can't afford to have 63 schollies.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Summit League axes acronyms to showcase big cities
http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/a ... DA1EC7Q80/


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Dennis wrote:
Summit League axes acronyms to showcase big cities
http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/a ... DA1EC7Q80/

This may help UMKC in the long run return to the name they were before they were "bought"/merged with the University of Missouri System. UMKC was called the University of Kansas City prior to the merger with the UM System. There has been a movement recently to return to that name due to the Columbia campus being refered to as the University of Missouri, and the Rolla campus changing its name to the Missouri University of Science and Technology (MIT (Missouri Institute of Technology was objected to by the real MIT)). Kansas Citians are really wanting this turn of events to occur and some of the alumni want it as well so they can "get out from MU's shadow" and "create their own Brand".


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:23 pm 
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As a grad of Massachetts InstiTUTE of Technology, I most certainly agree that we had the acronym MIT first. Na-na-na-na-nah !!!

I figured that when Missouri School of Mines (later U of Missouri - Rolla) went to Missouri University of Science & Technolgy, they would embrace "MUST".

But instead, they prefer Missouri S & T. I live in St. Louis, now , and my son is actually applying to S&T.

University of Missouri has branch campuses in KC (UMKC), Rolla (Missouri S&T) and St. Louis (UMSL).
If UMSL tried to change their identity, they might have a fight on their hands with St. Louis University (SLU), which is a Catholic school.


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