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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Its just a quirk of the CAA due to the history of the conference and how it was founded as non football.

Football has always leaned northern because of its adoption from the Yankee conference while the remaining sports remain at heart midatlantic and southern. JMU, Towson, WMU want to maintain a southern feel as best they can for their remaining sports because of travel, culture, etc. For football it is just not possible but for other sports it is thanks to UNCW and GMU (and hopefully Davidson and Charleston). Southern all sports members with northern football affiliates is how the CAA has been and looks to continue to be.

Northeastern and Hofstra dropping football but remaining as all sports members does make things a little more complicated.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Personally I think the best thing for everyone involved in CAA, all-sports and football affiliates alike, would be for America East to take over administration of the football conference. If you look at the 4 full members of CAA who play football there are 2 aspiring FBS programs and 2 schools who would consider Patriot League membership if offered. The future of that FCS conference is much safer in the AEC's hands and if Central Connecticut St joins that conference it would have 5 of the 12 members of the football conference.

Handing the football conference over to the AEC would allow the CAA to focus on basketball.


Last edited by fighting muskie on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:19 pm 
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accseahawk wrote:
Its just a quirk of the CAA due to the history of the conference and how it was founded as non football.

Football has always leaned northern because of its adoption from the Yankee conference while the remaining sports remain at heart midatlantic and southern. JMU, Towson, WMU want to maintain a southern feel as best they can for their remaining sports because of travel, culture, etc. For football it is just not possible but for other sports it is thanks to UNCW and GMU (and hopefully Davidson and Charleston). Southern all sports members with northern football affiliates is how the CAA has been and looks to continue to be.

Northeastern and Hofstra dropping football but remaining as all sports members does make things a little more complicated.


Indeed. Almos think that if the CAA could do it over, they would have put a clause in the contract that said that if they drop football, that the league has the right to expel them. Because it's sad that the CAA, which is/was? considered a better conference than the Patriot or AE, has a lesser school by most standards (facilities, success) than BU was, a recent AE member now in the Patriot. For Hofstra, for as positive as people want to think of them, remember their coach left to goto Fordham, the lowest of the low in the A10.

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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Hofstra was added as part of the initial keep the CAA alive expansion. Northeastern was the one added solely to obtain the football sponsorship. However both dropping football really put the CAA in a bind because now the CAA has to add more northern affiliates to make up for their dropping of the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:01 pm 
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would the CAA settle for CCSU as a full member if it needed them as a 12th if say Charleston and Davidson said yes but the fb schools in the SoCon said no?

I still don't see why Albany didn't get full membership, they aren't in the same territory as any other CAA school. SBU is.

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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
would the CAA settle for CCSU as a full member if it needed them as a 12th if say Charleston and Davidson said yes but the fb schools in the SoCon said no?

I still don't see why Albany didn't get full membership, they aren't in the same territory as any other CAA school. SBU is.
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
would the CAA settle for CCSU as a full member if it needed them as a 12th if say Charleston and Davidson said yes but the fb schools in the SoCon said no?

I still don't see why Albany didn't get full membership, they aren't in the same territory as any other CAA school. SBU is.


I don't think Central Connecticut St is a realistic CAA all-sports member. They are, however, an America East candidate, and would fit nicely as a football affiliate in a CAA North along with Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Albany, and Stony Brook.

Albany didn't get considered for full membership because the CAA is respecting the AEC and didn't want to put Maine and New Hampshire in a position where their primary conference home was severely destabilized.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:16 am 
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Did Albany and Stony Brook want full membership? They got a pretty good setup now that their football is in the CAA


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:06 am 
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I think the CAA has to sweeten the deal for the southern schools a bit. I think the hesitation comes from the fact that the Virginia schools are flight risks and schools that join (especially in football) might find themselves isolated. This could be the reason Albany wasn't given all sports membership. I think the CAA needs to bring on 5 SoCon members. I'm leaning towards App St, Wofford, GA Southern, Davidson, and Charleston.

Now, I really would like to see C Conn in the conference but the reason I'm flip flopping is because if they are the 12th and final member added to the football product, then things could get difficult in the future. Delaware, JMU, and W&M are all potential flight risks to FBS. If the CAA lost some or all of their Virginia schools, the bridge to the south could be lost and their future expansion options won't look too good.

Best part is that they would be in 11 of the 13 original Colonies (count Maine as Massachusetts because they were one territory at the time). Then we add C Conn and a New Jersey school and they would have them all! Princeton?


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Getting 5 SoCon schools to jump ship is going to a tough sell. I can see Charleston coming, and with some nudging, Davidson. However, I don't think any of the SoCon football schools will be coming and the CAA will ultimately settle for UNC Greensboro.

The CAA asking Rhode Island to stay in football is very meaningful and here is why: By having an 11th school it surely means they have a #12 in mind and division play. The CAA seems to be working in tandem with the America East--they could have tried to snare Albany or Stony Brook for all sports but they didn't. Doing so would have seriously harmed the America East and thus CAA football affiliates New Hampshire and Maine. If we look at the America East, its clear the schools they want to add are public schools with decent enrollments and Central Connecticut St fits that bill. To go to the America East, Central Connecticut would have to find a football home and the CAA is the most logical choice. Also, if we look at the 11 CAA football schools there are 5 clustered in New England and eastern NY while the other 6 hug the Atlantic Coast from SE PA to the NC border. For division alignment it makes far more sense to add an fb affiliate in the Northeast than to the South as it would inevitably bump Villanova north.

I also think that within the CAA football membership there is a cognizance that someday the league will be better served if administered by the America East than the CAA. The CAA full members in the league are all likely to be future domino players either be it through FCS upgrade or a move to the Patriot. I think Towson, William & Mary, and Richmond (fb only) to the Patriot is a very real possibility down the road should the CAA become increasingly factionalized.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:35 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I also think that within the CAA football membership there is a cognizance that someday the league will be better served if administered by the America East than the CAA. The CAA full members in the league are all likely to be future domino players either be it through FCS upgrade or a move to the Patriot. I think Towson, William & Mary, and Richmond (fb only) to the Patriot is a very real possibility down the road should the CAA become increasingly factionalized.



That's exactly my point. If the CAA gets their 12th in the NE like I suspected before, it could lead to problems in the future. Let's face it, no one in that North division would be a flight risk unless they were moving down so once they're in, the CAA is stuck with them. The south however has serious risks. Delaware and James Madison could be apart of future Sun Belt and MAC expansion. William & Mary could be too, or they could move to an academically superior Patriot league as many are suggesting. Richmond would probably like to move if one or more Virginia schools left. Nova could be headed to the Big East one day soon especially if there is noise out of the ACC, SEC, or even Big 12 (or if/when the west division thing falls apart). Towson isn't exactly going to be bringing in the next wave of southern schools.

If the CAA can't get the SoCon schools to jump now, they never will and I would suspect that the future will involve the American East taking over the football conference, absorbing/merging with the CAA, and also taking in the Big South football schools for football only.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:44 am 
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So I think we all expected to hear something on the non-FB side of the CAA expansion by now.

It seemed that only C of C pressed forward with taking the matter to their BoT, on August 3rd. Crickets....

Could the CAA be satisfied with addiing a FB affilate to get to the CAA FB league to 12, and just one all-sports (likely non FB) school to get the CAA to 10 ?

Rampant raiding of other conferneces could result in unintended consequences.
The WAC (sinking fast) is still reeling from Karl Benson's "project", where he was thinking of raiding the MWC, and suddenly the raider became the raided.

The SoCon might part willingly with a non-FB member without much reaction. If the CAA went after the heart of the confernece, the SoCon could counter by inviting the
southern flank of the CAA.

So far, the CAA FB expansion has been very thoughtful and not disruptive (all AE FB schools are now under the CAA umbrella).
This could have been accomplished any time during the past 4-5 years, however Yeager may have never wanted to go above 12,
and waited to move on Stony Brook and Albany until after UMass, ODU, and Ga. St. announced their departure.

Why does the CAA need more than 10 all-sports members ?

Add C of C for all sports (non-FB),
move CCSU to AE / CAA FB,
ask Northeastern and UMBC if they'd like to swap conferneces.

Going overboard can breed some serious bad blood between the various conferences.
If the CAA takes too many form the SoCON, then they cannibalize the Big South, and so on... I think most schools really prefer stability.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:13 am 
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tute79 wrote:
So I think we all expected to hear something on the non-FB side of the CAA expansion by now.

It seemed that only C of C pressed forward with taking the matter to their BoT, on August 3rd. Crickets....

Could the CAA be satisfied with addiing a FB affilate to get to the CAA FB league to 12, and just one all-sports (likely non FB) school to get the CAA to 10 ?

Rampant raiding of other conferneces could result in unintended consequences.
The WAC (sinking fast) is still reeling from Karl Benson's "project", where he was thinking of raiding the MWC, and suddenly the raider became the raided.

The SoCon might part willingly with a non-FB member without much reaction. If the CAA went after the heart of the confernece, the SoCon could counter by inviting the
southern flank of the CAA.

So far, the CAA FB expansion has been very thoughtful and not disruptive (all AE FB schools are now under the CAA umbrella).
This could have been accomplished any time during the past 4-5 years, however Yeager may have never wanted to go above 12,
and waited to move on Stony Brook and Albany until after UMass, ODU, and Ga. St. announced their departure.

Why does the CAA need more than 10 all-sports members ?

Add C of C for all sports (non-FB),
move CCSU to AE / CAA FB,
ask Northeastern and UMBC if they'd like to swap conferneces.

Going overboard can breed some serious bad blood between the various conferences.
If the CAA takes too many form the SoCON, then they cannibalize the Big South, and so on... I think most schools really prefer stability.



I think that you have schools like C of C and Davidson, now looking at the CAA for some different reasons. There is little doubt that the CAA is a much worse conference with ODU and VCU gone. To an extent, GA St. as well, since it was some type of access into Atlanta...but that is like saying (right now at least) that Drexel gives "access" to Philly or NU gives "access" to Boston. Neither does much, but with GA St. there was more potential, due to their investment in athletics.

That said, oddly, CofC passed on CAA overtures back when GA St. and NU were brought in. So why would CofC consider leaving now? Because they are seeing schools leave for FBS, and they know App St. and GA Southern likely will too. And if you're the SoCon, that means you have only, really, the Big South to look at.

It would seem that for CofC to consider the CAA, it meant that either:
1) the CAA is willing to put football aside as top priority and make moves for the more stable, non-football sports. Adding Albany and Stony Brook for FB only falls into this category. So if your CofC, and the conference is willing to put basketball first, the sport you have, then being with similar basketball schools can be a help. And the access to the northeast is a benefit without the risk of finding yourself in a conference that is adding all sorts of northern all-sports schools that would put CofC to far away from the conference base.

2) The CAA is willing to go beyond the potential CofC and Davidson additions with (2) more "local" area schools that will not likely have FBS aspirations. We heard Elon and Furman. Not sexy picks for all-sports, but if you're Davidson and CofC, and you can pretty much lock up a southern "division" (in name only, not a real 6/6 split) with CofC, Davidson, Elon, Furman, W&M and UNCW, you'r ein a safe spot: you get lots of close bus trips for your sports, but also get a few of those "northern" games in Maryland (Towson), DC (GMU), Delaware, Philly (Drexel), NY (Hofstra), Boston (NU).

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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:28 pm 
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My question is what is in it for Elon and Furman? They'd have much greater travel expenditures by making the move to the CAA and at the moment the SoCon is very stable. Even if Georgia Southern and Appalachian State left the SoCon would not be at any risk of collapse because they'd merely grab from the Big South and/or Jacksonville St. I think the CAA is in a position where they could possibly make an amicable arrangement with the SoCon by taking UNC-Greensboro as the 12th school (CofC and Davidson being the others), allowing the Socon to rid itself of its hybrid conference status and take in 3 football schools in anticipation of Georgia Southern and Appalachian St's future moves. In the end, just about everyone in the CAA and SoCon end up happy. The Big South football schools who don't get invitations to the SoCon might be left a little displeased but if you look at some of the southern schools with nonscholarship fb up and going and in the works I think they would be able to muster together a nice non-scholy/low scholy league in the south--Campbell, Davidson, Kennesaw St, Mercer, Jacksonville, Stetson, and probably Charleston Southern, Gardner-Webb, Presbyterian, and VMI from the Big South.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Curious as to everyone's thoughts on this:

College of Charleston---to CAA
Davidson--to CAA
UNC Greensboro--to CAA

Central Connecticut St--to AEC/CAA fb affiliate

Liberty--to SoCon
Coastal Carolina--to SoCon
Jacksonville St--to SoCon

North Alabama--to OVC

Big South possibly adds 2 A-Sun schools as full members?

Non-Scholarship/Low Scholarship football only conference in the Southeast forms including:
VMI
Campbell
Davidson
Gardner-Webb
Presbyterian
Charleston Southern
Kennesaw St
Mercer
Jacksonville
Stetson
This conference could be ran out of the Big South Conference's office in much the same way the MVFC is at the MVC office.

Remaining Pioneer FB League members possibly become the Western Division of the NEC? Pioneer would be left with 7 members and so would the NEC so its possible they both stay afloat.

(another option is the remaining Big South football schools get absorbed as NEC affiliates and the PFL stays out of the realignment.)

Everyone gets a stable home and most everyone ends up happy with where they end up.


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 Post subject: Re: CAA Realignment
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
tute79 wrote:
So I think we all expected to hear something on the non-FB side of the CAA expansion by now.

It seemed that only C of C pressed forward with taking the matter to their BoT, on August 3rd. Crickets....

Could the CAA be satisfied with addiing a FB affilate to get to the CAA FB league to 12, and just one all-sports (likely non FB) school to get the CAA to 10 ?

Rampant raiding of other conferneces could result in unintended consequences.
The WAC (sinking fast) is still reeling from Karl Benson's "project", where he was thinking of raiding the MWC, and suddenly the raider became the raided.

The SoCon might part willingly with a non-FB member without much reaction. If the CAA went after the heart of the confernece, the SoCon could counter by inviting the
southern flank of the CAA.

So far, the CAA FB expansion has been very thoughtful and not disruptive (all AE FB schools are now under the CAA umbrella).
This could have been accomplished any time during the past 4-5 years, however Yeager may have never wanted to go above 12,
and waited to move on Stony Brook and Albany until after UMass, ODU, and Ga. St. announced their departure.

Why does the CAA need more than 10 all-sports members ?

Add C of C for all sports (non-FB),
move CCSU to AE / CAA FB,
ask Northeastern and UMBC if they'd like to swap conferneces.

Going overboard can breed some serious bad blood between the various conferences.
If the CAA takes too many form the SoCON, then they cannibalize the Big South, and so on... I think most schools really prefer stability.



I think that you have schools like C of C and Davidson, now looking at the CAA for some different reasons. There is little doubt that the CAA is a much worse conference with ODU and VCU gone. To an extent, GA St. as well, since it was some type of access into Atlanta...but that is like saying (right now at least) that Drexel gives "access" to Philly or NU gives "access" to Boston. Neither does much, but with GA St. there was more potential, due to their investment in athletics.

That said, oddly, CofC passed on CAA overtures back when GA St. and NU were brought in. So why would CofC consider leaving now? Because they are seeing schools leave for FBS, and they know App St. and GA Southern likely will too. And if you're the SoCon, that means you have only, really, the Big South to look at.

It would seem that for CofC to consider the CAA, it meant that either:
1) the CAA is willing to put football aside as top priority and make moves for the more stable, non-football sports. Adding Albany and Stony Brook for FB only falls into this category. So if your CofC, and the conference is willing to put basketball first, the sport you have, then being with similar basketball schools can be a help. And the access to the northeast is a benefit without the risk of finding yourself in a conference that is adding all sorts of northern all-sports schools that would put CofC to far away from the conference base.

2) The CAA is willing to go beyond the potential CofC and Davidson additions with (2) more "local" area schools that will not likely have FBS aspirations. We heard Elon and Furman. Not sexy picks for all-sports, but if you're Davidson and CofC, and you can pretty much lock up a southern "division" (in name only, not a real 6/6 split) with CofC, Davidson, Elon, Furman, W&M and UNCW, you'r ein a safe spot: you get lots of close bus trips for your sports, but also get a few of those "northern" games in Maryland (Towson), DC (GMU), Delaware, Philly (Drexel), NY (Hofstra), Boston (NU).


im pretty sure UNCW is the only one that would consider the SoCon. GMU, WMU, JMU, and Towson form a nice core and can work with AEast schools fairly easily.

You also forgot about JMU is your 2nd scenario, although I could live with that Southern Division if JMU took Furman's spot.


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