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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:08 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Official as of a liitle after 3pm. Typical Big Ten style...more secretive than a CIA operation. I have a feeling the Big East acquisitions were the kicker. UMD lost at every level in that one, and I bet UMD's rivalries with UNC and Duke were toast. ACC: make this your reality check.

I won't be optimistic about this until Rutgers is off the table. There HAS to be a better applicant pool...no way is the ACC's trash a B1G's treasure. Be it GT or UVA or those previously rejected, a program like Rutgers will be start of the end of this conference. They bring nothing.


LOL, whoever gets in bed with a Notre Dame deal, deficated matter follows. Stories are the B1G was very displeased with the ACC/ND set-up and what followed such as canceling a series with Michigan. The B1G has moved to create the northest trioka of Penn State-MD-Rutgers and subdue the ACC's northeast footprint to a degree. Though the B1G may not admit it, there's a mirrow to what has developed in the SEC.

Both the SEC and the B1G shall have schools in 11 contiguous states, respectively. Each has one private, secular institution. Each has three states with two conference schools. The geographic stretch of both, east to west, are similar. On surface, they look parallel to each other, north-south while now boarding fairly extensively, with obvious climate differences. Sure there are differences in academics (#s' AAU, consortium, etc.) traditions, emphasis and promoting certain sports diversities (baseball/golf/tennis or hockey/wrestling/volleyball), but for fb/bb appearances and the composition look, the B1G would look more similar to the SEC than the PAC12; and the SEC in many aspects has a closer structural profile with the B1G than the B12.

I do hope though, 14 is the stop for the SEC, B1G, and any other power conference.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:03 pm 
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People need to realize that this expansion was NOT about football or really even sports...this has to do with academics and money...Maryland and Rutgers are two more AAU school with good academics and bring in 3 major markets...DC, Baltimore, and NY area...NOT everything is about football even though that is what has pushed most of the other expansions...Big Ten's TV contract is up in a few years and bringing in these major markets will be huge when negotiations happen.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:44 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I won't be optimistic about this until Rutgers is off the table. There HAS to be a better applicant pool...no way is the ACC's trash a B1G's treasure. Be it GT or UVA or those previously rejected, a program like Rutgers will be start of the end of this conference. They bring nothing.


Remember that the ACC and Big Ten aren't playing by the same expansion rules.

The ACC adds teams because their viewership and popularity will lead to a bigger offer from a network like ESPN. You need a team to be good on the field, and in a decent market, and have a sizeable fan base.

The Big Ten adds teams because they can charge a higher carraige fee for Big Ten Network in that market and get every cable customer giving them a few dimes a month, regardless of how good they are.

So while Rutgers wouldn't bring much to the ACC-ESPN negotiating table, they bring a lot to the Big Ten because the BTN/Fox-Cable Systems negotiations are a different animal.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:41 am 
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I just think Rutgers is a risk investment. The football is relatively stable NOW, but it's the only program of worth and even it hasn't exactly dominated its domain. How many Big East titles?

I'm more concerned the Big Ten, while saying they value eastern markets, don't understand them. UMD was a step forward for basketball and lacrosse...RU is a setback. Better schools have approached this conference...it's just a zipcode!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:50 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I just think Rutgers is a risk investment. The football is relatively stable NOW, but it's the only program of worth and even it hasn't exactly dominated its domain. How many Big East titles?

I'm more concerned the Big Ten, while saying they value eastern markets, don't understand them. UMD was a step forward for basketball and lacrosse...RU is a setback. Better schools have approached this conference...it's just a zipcode!



That zip code is in the #1 market and 90 cent fees since it becomes a B1G market are worth more than 10 cent fees it currently gets because it's not a B1G market. Plus they own part of YES net.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:16 am 
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The Bishin Cutter - Good job on keeping an eye on Maryland after the ACC invited Notre Dame as a partial member.

I agree with your assessment that Rutgers is definitely a risk for the Big Ten. (Maryland, for the purposes of being able to deliver DC and Baltimore TV markets, is on much more solid ground.) Delany is likely banking on the network effects of Rutgers combined with Penn State, Maryland, Michigan and other Big Ten alums in the NYC region to gain traction there as opposed to believing that Rutgers alone would suffice. I share some of your skepticism as to whether that will work - it's far from a slam dunk. Aside from the TV markets, this isn't an exciting on-the-field move like Nebraska was, but I think we'll look back in 10 or 20 years as a necessary one for the Big Ten with the changing demographics of the country.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 am 
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SBD article discussing Big Ten expansion at http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail ... yland.aspx


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 am 
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NYDaily News article reporting that RU BOG has accepted Big Ten invite with a presser scheduled for this afternoon at http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colle ... -1.1204813


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:20 am 
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Rutgers as a prospect for the Big Ten has been a discussion item for many years. It was even a recommendation of a study (mid-90s?) the conference made per expansion after PSU joined and way before Nebraska was added. Rutgers will get a big lift in recruiting, exposure, etc., simply by having joined. Certainly their administration shall have to devote enhanced/sustained resources to keep up, but may be very doable. It was a market decision, but Delany and the B1G had to believe the competitive potential for the long-term exists to go along with market objectives.

I suppose I could be in the minority on this, but I view the B1G adding MD & RU is a very smart and strategic move. Those Rutgers officials who told their frustrated constituents after the last ACC raid on the BE, that Rutgers will be fine for the future, were not so disconnected with reality after all.

Other than the BE again being a loser with the move, the ACC took a big hit with losing MD. The ACC's image of political power and prestige took a step back, and proved they were vulnerable, in spite of outrageous self-imposed exit fees, a sought footprint from Key West to Nova Scotia, and some sense of elevated importance because they gave Notre Dame partial membership.

IF it was FSU leaving, the ACC would just say it's another southern fb factory that no longer has a mission fit. But charter member Maryland, where the ACC has recently expanded above them? It's a hit. UCONN or L'ville can physically replace, but there's perceptual damage that can last quite awhile.


Last edited by sec03 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 am 
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ESPN blog article with various reactions to Big Ten expansion moves at http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/i ... sion-moves


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:15 pm 
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One article leaked the new B1G divisional alignment:

Basically, Maryland and Rutgers to the East (Leaders), and Illinois sliding to the West (Legends).

Leaders - Rutgers, Md, PSU, OSU, Indiana, Purdue, Wisconsin
Legends - UM, MSU, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, iowa, Nebraska

Geographically, this would have laid our well, had Wisconsin moved to the west instead of Illinois.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:37 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
One article leaked the new B1G divisional alignment:

Basically, Maryland and Rutgers to the East (Leaders), and Illinois sliding to the West (Legends).

Leaders - Rutgers, Md, PSU, OSU, Indiana, Purdue, Wisconsin
Legends - UM, MSU, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, iowa, Nebraska

Geographically, this would have laid our well, had Wisconsin moved to the west instead of Illinois.


That alignment was sneaked by Kirwan, and it makes sense geographically but may not be final. Gene Smith of OSU expressed displeasure about it in today's Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Actually two years ago I was in favor of a strict split, putting Illinois and Wisconsin out west and Michigan and Sparty in the east. Delaney held out for competitive balance to allow for future additions.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:06 pm 
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yeah, the assumption was that Michaigan and Ohio State would be the dominant teams, and needed to be in opposite divisions.

Sort of like ACC separating Miami and Florida State, except they went WAY overboard wiht the "zipper".
If UConn is invited, I imagine they will take Maryland's place in the Atlantic Division, and so all 3 northern former BE teams (BC, UConn and 'Cuse) would be together.

In all honesty, Louisville probably has better FB, equal men's BB (not nearly as good women's BB) to UConn, but UConn seems to "plug into" the ACC so much more seamlessly.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:19 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
ESPN blog article with various reactions to Big Ten expansion moves at http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/i ... sion-moves

I likewise do not believe the Big Ten is done with expansion and believe 16 members has always been on the table for the Big Ten.

It is easy to make up the western division of eight schools once the Big Ten expands to 16 by having:

Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue

This type of format will keep Michigan and Ohio State in the same division and avoid permanent cross over games in a 16 member league.

Now the question is which will be the other two teams the Big Ten has in its scope.

It is clear the Big Ten drew a line right through the middle of the ACC splitting the league into north and south regions almost parallel with the historic Mason Dixon line.

Maybe it is payback to the ACC for taking Notre Dame as a partial member or most likely very strategic in nature.

Assuming the Big Ten continues to want Notre Dame, the method to get the school in all sports is push for the four power leagues and severely weaken the ACC from the current five power league status.

Remember the comment only a few weeks back from the Wisconsin Athletic Director, the Big Ten, Pac 12, Big 12, and SEC should form a permanent for power league alliance and either split or control college football. This was most likely some of the back room discussions taking place would be my guess.

Ok if we are in fact heading to four primary power conferences, Notre Dame has to be included or else everyone in the TV world would go ballistic.

So now the fun begins with how conference convince a school to join that may otherwise want to remain loyal to a certain league or a personal school agenda.

We already know the ACC is now split into two regions and somewhat reminder of how Germany were split during WWII into east and west. Ok funny however not really the same!

Just look at a map and you have two major south eastern states not in the Big Ten or soon to be SEC network regions. North Carolina and Virginia!

Less assume the line in the sand is the Maryland border, then Notre Dame and Boston College would complete the takeover of the north for the Big Ten and leave North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC.

Ok Notre Dame you want to try a remain independent in football, we Big Ten folks will just simply kill off the power of your new league the ACC by possibly going after Georgia Tech and Florida State. We can after all provide both of those schools a major bump in revenue, just ask Maryland.

Back to how a conference convinces a school to join by taking other schools in the conference that would have major impacts on those schools by remaining in that league.

SEC is probably already licking their chops on moving into North Carolina and Virginia and sending big thank you to the Big Ten.

Best case scenario for the Big Ten is finally getting Notre Dame in for all sports along with fellow catholic and Boston market target Boston College. Wow just think of Washington DC up through Philly into NYC and finally into Boston to take over the eastern seaboard.

Ok back to the four power leagues. Big 12 you can now come in and take what you need. Hello Florida State and Clemson.

If the above is about to occur and is a very likely scenario, the ACC will be reduced to a rubble of Pitt, Syracuse, Virginia or Va Tech which ever does not want the SEC, North Carolina or NC State which every does not want the SEC, Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, and a Miami schools about to go on major probation.

So back to Notre Dame and would the school continue to take a stubborn stance on independence for football and possibly be ok in an ACC that could have the following format:

Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse, Duke, Wake, Miami Fl, UConn?, Louisville?, USF? Cincinnati?

or better yet would Notre Dame not want to be in the east division of one of the future four power league such as

Big Ten East: Notre Dame, Boston College, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan

Hey Notre Dame you got a choice and the Big Ten has drew a line in the sand.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:03 pm 
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I don't buy BC/ND are on the list at all. I actually thing 14 is the end, numerous people in the Big 4 have come out and said 14 is sustainable, 16 is not; especially financially.


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