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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:28 am 
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Berry Tramel piece looking at Big Ten expansion from a Big 12 viewpoint at http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2012 ... nsion-mean


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:23 am 
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Chip Brown blog article discussing possible future Big 12 expansion at http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID ... &PT=4&PR=2


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Georgia Tech rather than Clemson, eh? Guess it makes sense from a TV standpoint, and what other standpoint is there now?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:25 pm 
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I can't see 5 superpower conferences (which excludes the BE) all at 14 or 16 without raiding each other and a couple of them bending to take schools from the pool of MWC/CUSA/SunBelt/MAC/remaining Independents/what is left from the BE/FCS upgrade). UCONN, L'ville, BYU; and maybe Boise, Cincy, or possibly USF, may have from low to high from among them; but beyond that, who else is plausible?

The B12 appears not interested in anything available westward, outside maybe BYU as a fallback. The B12 looking eastward may have hopes one or two ACC schools would bolt. The PAC12 can't go west of themselves other than Hawaii. They wouldn't want anything further, currently, from the Rockies and desert. If the BIG further expanded, the focus would be on another ACC school or two and/or go into B12 country somewhere such as Kansas. The SEC would not add anyone, east or west, unless they are already in a power conference.

It is assumed the B1G, SEC, and PAC 12, are too stable, lucrative, and powerful not to lose anybody. That leaves the ACC and the B12, maybe, both having instilled expensive retaining policies, as further extraction considerations. But a new excessive exit fee didn't stop Maryland, and any terms nowadays appear negotiable and subject to judicial review if pursued and contested.

The B12 has lost 4 over the last few years and looked as if it could have been broken apart; but bounced back with adding two and now looks pretty stable. The ACC has lost one and can replace, but suddenly looks it could possibly drain from the crack.

It's going to boil down to TV enhancements and who is desireable and seeking more sustained revenue from a conference deemed able to be further penetrated.

Schools such as Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, GT, Clemson, and Virginia could be key in determining the new deals.

Let this stuff hold at 14 max for those that want it. TV execs have to be driving much of this including strong input in naming the picks.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:00 am 
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I have been thinking this week what would be the most strategic move the Big 12 could make with the recent pooching of the ACC by the Big Ten.

If there is one school staggering from this recent Big Ten move, it has got to be the University of Pittsburgh. Already located in the Big Ten region and with the recent move by the closet potential ACC school Maryland into the Big Ten, Pitt has to be vulnerable with this latest realignment.

With Tier 3 rights owned by the individual schools, the Big 12 funding model will never be the same as the SEC and Big Ten. I see the Big 12 looking at potential expansions schools that would favor this model.

Pitt and Louisville both fit the Big 12 funding model as either school will most likely never be a candidate for the always potentially expanding Big Ten and soon to be SEC driven by cable markets and conference networks..

Every remaining ACC school is vulnerable to the SEC and Big Ten for cable markets with the exception of Pitt. This same fact continues to make Pitt vulnerable as well without playing one game in the ACC.

Since the Big 12 has already explored taking Pitt, WVU, and Louisville when the league had nine schools including at that time Texas A&M, this option may be back on the table with TCU already replacing Texas A&M and WVU already a member of the Big 12.

The reason for my post today on this subject is Thanksgiving and TV. The Big 12 has to benefit TV to expand and Pitt may just have those benefits by syncing back up with Arch-rival WVU.

As a college football fan there are some national rival games I never miss on TV if possible including Ohio State/Michigan, Alabama/Auburn, USC/Notre Dame, Florida/Florida State, recently Arizona/ASU, Oklahoma/Texas and the backyard brawl of WVU/Pitt. Since the backyard brawl was traditionally on TV during Thanksgiving holiday weekend, there are many college football fans this week missing this game.

Everyone does not necessarily understand why the Oklahoma schools and the Texas schools need to be in the same division because TV wants these games on the schedule every year

If the Big 12 wanted to get back to 12 school, taking Louisville and Pitt make a lot of sense both geographically and they both fit the Big 12 funding model. Additinally Pitt and Louisville along with WVU would fill in the north division with the Kansas schools and Iowas state with a nice 3 team balance in both regions.

Also if the ACC continues to crumble under the advancements of Big Ten and soon to be SEC cable network expansion, Notre Dame may want to rethink it soft landing spot for its independent football program. What better way to help Notre Dame by having continuous geographical schools of Louisville, WVU, and Pitt for basketball and other Olympic sports.

Notre Dame fits the Big 12 funding model as well if the ACC continues to become unstable.

If I am Bowlsby and wanted to make some strategic moves that did not negative impact TV, maybe Pitt and Louisville are the way to go.

North: Pitt. WVU, Louisville, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State

South: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas

There are a lot of college football fans would welcome this format on this very tranditional Thanksgiving football holiday weekend.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Good thoughts, but could Pitt afford the $50 mil which MD seems to be prepared to pay in thw worst case? Pitt would deliver more eyeballs than Clemson but far fewer ticket sales.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Pitt won't budge. The ACC, until it's actually gutted (which won't happen) is there until the B1G taps them. So, another lifetime?

It's sick to think Big XII programs thought so highly of Pitt to put them as a priority in replacing A&M and Mizzou, and Pitt wouldn't budge. In the ACC, an underperformer like Pitt could be what did UMD and maybe others in.

Pitt needs to overhaul their entire Dept. Wanny was a good thing that should have cost everyone in the AD to lose their jobs. They also need to realize their students are slackers who won't go the few miles to Heinz Field. Maybe they should rebuild an OCS...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 pm 
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lash wrote:
I have been thinking this week what would be the most strategic move the Big 12 could make with the recent pooching of the ACC by the Big Ten.

If there is one school staggering from this recent Big Ten move, it has got to be the University of Pittsburgh. Already located in the Big Ten region and with the recent move by the closet potential ACC school Maryland into the Big Ten, Pitt has to be vulnerable with this latest realignment.

With Tier 3 rights owned by the individual schools, the Big 12 funding model will never be the same as the SEC and Big Ten. I see the Big 12 looking at potential expansions schools that would favor this model.

Pitt and Louisville both fit the Big 12 funding model as either school will most likely never be a candidate for the always potentially expanding Big Ten and soon to be SEC driven by cable markets and conference networks..

Every remaining ACC school is vulnerable to the SEC and Big Ten for cable markets with the exception of Pitt. This same fact continues to make Pitt vulnerable as well without playing one game in the ACC.

Since the Big 12 has already explored taking Pitt, WVU, and Louisville when the league had nine schools including at that time Texas A&M, this option may be back on the table with TCU already replacing Texas A&M and WVU already a member of the Big 12.

The reason for my post today on this subject is Thanksgiving and TV. The Big 12 has to benefit TV to expand and Pitt may just have those benefits by syncing back up with Arch-rival WVU.

As a college football fan there are some national rival games I never miss on TV if possible including Ohio State/Michigan, Alabama/Auburn, USC/Notre Dame, Florida/Florida State, recently Arizona/ASU, Oklahoma/Texas and the backyard brawl of WVU/Pitt. Since the backyard brawl was traditionally on TV during Thanksgiving holiday weekend, there are many college football fans this week missing this game.

Everyone does not necessarily understand why the Oklahoma schools and the Texas schools need to be in the same division because TV wants these games on the schedule every year

If the Big 12 wanted to get back to 12 school, taking Louisville and Pitt make a lot of sense both geographically and they both fit the Big 12 funding model. Additinally Pitt and Louisville along with WVU would fill in the north division with the Kansas schools and Iowas state with a nice 3 team balance in both regions.

Also if the ACC continues to crumble under the advancements of Big Ten and soon to be SEC cable network expansion, Notre Dame may want to rethink it soft landing spot for its independent football program. What better way to help Notre Dame by having continuous geographical schools of Louisville, WVU, and Pitt for basketball and other Olympic sports.

Notre Dame fits the Big 12 funding model as well if the ACC continues to become unstable.

If I am Bowlsby and wanted to make some strategic moves that did not negative impact TV, maybe Pitt and Louisville are the way to go.

North: Pitt. WVU, Louisville, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State

South: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas

There are a lot of college football fans would welcome this format on this very tranditional Thanksgiving football holiday weekend.


With Pitt off the market why not slot in Cincinnati? Sure Cincinnati is a much smaller prize than Pittsburgh and it doesn't result in reviving an epic rivalry but it would give the Big 12 The Keg of Nails and re-establishes the same Northern 6/Southern 6 equilibrium that the Big 12 lost with the Nebraska/Colorado exodus. It's not as sexy but it would bring stability. Another thought for the Big 12 would be getting a foothold in Florida with USF and/or UCF.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:19 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
lash wrote:
I have been thinking this week what would be the most strategic move the Big 12 could make with the recent pooching of the ACC by the Big Ten.

If there is one school staggering from this recent Big Ten move, it has got to be the University of Pittsburgh. Already located in the Big Ten region and with the recent move by the closet potential ACC school Maryland into the Big Ten, Pitt has to be vulnerable with this latest realignment.

With Tier 3 rights owned by the individual schools, the Big 12 funding model will never be the same as the SEC and Big Ten. I see the Big 12 looking at potential expansions schools that would favor this model.

Pitt and Louisville both fit the Big 12 funding model as either school will most likely never be a candidate for the always potentially expanding Big Ten and soon to be SEC driven by cable markets and conference networks..

Every remaining ACC school is vulnerable to the SEC and Big Ten for cable markets with the exception of Pitt. This same fact continues to make Pitt vulnerable as well without playing one game in the ACC.

Since the Big 12 has already explored taking Pitt, WVU, and Louisville when the league had nine schools including at that time Texas A&M, this option may be back on the table with TCU already replacing Texas A&M and WVU already a member of the Big 12.

The reason for my post today on this subject is Thanksgiving and TV. The Big 12 has to benefit TV to expand and Pitt may just have those benefits by syncing back up with Arch-rival WVU.

As a college football fan there are some national rival games I never miss on TV if possible including Ohio State/Michigan, Alabama/Auburn, USC/Notre Dame, Florida/Florida State, recently Arizona/ASU, Oklahoma/Texas and the backyard brawl of WVU/Pitt. Since the backyard brawl was traditionally on TV during Thanksgiving holiday weekend, there are many college football fans this week missing this game.

Everyone does not necessarily understand why the Oklahoma schools and the Texas schools need to be in the same division because TV wants these games on the schedule every year

If the Big 12 wanted to get back to 12 school, taking Louisville and Pitt make a lot of sense both geographically and they both fit the Big 12 funding model. Additinally Pitt and Louisville along with WVU would fill in the north division with the Kansas schools and Iowas state with a nice 3 team balance in both regions.

Also if the ACC continues to crumble under the advancements of Big Ten and soon to be SEC cable network expansion, Notre Dame may want to rethink it soft landing spot for its independent football program. What better way to help Notre Dame by having continuous geographical schools of Louisville, WVU, and Pitt for basketball and other Olympic sports.

Notre Dame fits the Big 12 funding model as well if the ACC continues to become unstable.

If I am Bowlsby and wanted to make some strategic moves that did not negative impact TV, maybe Pitt and Louisville are the way to go.

North: Pitt. WVU, Louisville, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State

South: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas

There are a lot of college football fans would welcome this format on this very tranditional Thanksgiving football holiday weekend.


With Pitt off the market why not slot in Cincinnati? Sure Cincinnati is a much smaller prize than Pittsburgh and it doesn't result in reviving an epic rivalry but it would give the Big 12 The Keg of Nails and re-establishes the same Northern 6/Southern 6 equilibrium that the Big 12 lost with the Nebraska/Colorado exodus. It's not as sexy but it would bring stability. Another thought for the Big 12 would be getting a foothold in Florida with USF and/or UCF.

I am not so sure Pitt will be off the market if the Big Ten as expected continues to advance on the ACC taking additional members.

As for Cincinnati, the Big 12 has already did the reaseach and Louisville and Cincinnati do not bring in enough value to expand with those two schools for 12 and play a championship game.

Pitt and WVU rivarly may bring more benefits for TV if the Big 12 wanted to expand back to 12.

On the other hand, I beleive the Big 12 will just sit back and watch the SEC and Big Ten take out the ACC and will have many options on which two schools they want for to bring the leage back to 12 members.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:19 pm 
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I know Rutgers pretty much rekindles the "all things are possible through Christ" thing, but Pitt isn't getting that B1G rub. I'm pretty sure PSU and OSU have done a lot to make sure they aren't involved in the future of the conference, and I think the addition of UMD and RU just added to that gang. Believe me, Pitt has made enemies with a lot of programs over the years, and what they've put back into the national discussion has not been positive by any means, spare some good basketball.

Something was said on the FSU board that I didn't know previously: GoR can be dissolved by six consenting votes. Question: now that the SEC, B1G, and ACC are working with 14...when does the PAC grow? And if the PAC grows, about how many and which conference(s) stand to be amongst the plundered?

Does adding schools in the Big XII mean that in order to dissolve GoR, it will also mean more than six votes (over 50%) to sink that ship? I can come up with a few schools the PAC would easily absorb: Texas, Oklahoma, OSU, and Kansas. I can see "Tceh" getting hush-hush support, and maybe KSU follows KU. Maybe the B1G takes two and the PAC four? Regardless, I'm newly intrigued by this newfound interest in 14, and what it means to the B12 and PAC. Maybe the B12 isn't on as solid a ground as it lets on being?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:06 am 
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I think Pitt is happy with their new home in the ACC.

It's been saiid many times that PSU gives the Big Ten that PA TV market.
I grew up in Western PA (more of a Pitt fan), but I can affirm that it's true that Penn State dominates state-wide.

Unless you believe that PSU will not recover from the scandal
(and based on support for their football team this past weekend, it looks like they have already MENTALLY (if not FINANCIALLY) put it behind them),
then the Big Ten gains little by inviting Pitt.

And after the drain on PA public finances from the PSU scandal, where would Pitt look to come up with a $50 million exit fee ???


I live in St. Louis now, and have thought that Mizzou was always an excellent candidate for the Big Ten. They are surrounded by Big Ten now on East, North, and West.

I don't think the SEC has any exit fee. A typical school would be insane to contemplate leaving the SEC,
and the SEC "was there for Mizzou" when they were being jerked around by the TX / OK contingent of the Big XII.
Not sure anyone in the Mizzou hierarchy would be interested in the Big Ten at this point, but I think they remain an excellent candidate.
Clearly Delany doesn't like public lobbying - I would think Mizzou learned this lesson.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:19 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
And after the drain on PA public finances from the PSU scandal, where would Pitt look to come up with a $50 million exit fee ???


Did Pitt and 'Cuse have any say on that buyout? Did they sign something that said they were subject to this fee by agreeing to join the ACC? I think Pitt has a couple of sugar-daddy boosters, and the B1G is its own motivating factor...some in the state will complain...PSU alums in state government especially...but if UMD can get it together, Pitt can easily.

Quote:
I live in St. Louis now, and have thought that Mizzou was always an excellent candidate for the Big Ten. They are surrounded by Big Ten now on East, North, and West.


Here's hoping the post-Delany B1G isn't headed by another egomaniacal d-bag and finds the UNL-MU-KU bloc one worth having within the B1G.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Assuming the B1G and the SEC are really done at "14", I expect schools in those conferences are essentially "off the table" per further realignment. That would include Mizzou. Because a school "looks like a natural" for a conference, it certainly has not prevented prior defections and dismissiveness. Take the SEC alone, So. Carolina was an ACC Charter member; Texas A&M was once deeply ingrained in the old SWC and the B12. Arkansas, in the NW corner of the state, is closer to some of the B12 schools than many in the SEC, and they lost their own big rivalry with the Univ. of Texas when they departed the old SWC.

And this expanded markets and footprints stuff has certainly been adapted by some.

In tune with some of Cutter's comments, politics, personal relationships, lobbying tactics, etc., do play into certain selections. The B1G brass certainly tries to be both secret and dramatic with expansion, a bit like the method the Cardinals do in selecting a new Pope.

The ball has to shift to the courts of the B1G12 and PAC as to the next big moves if indeed "14" is an immediate goal for them also. The B1G and the ACC had/have comparatively easier pickings. The Big12 and PAC have greater geographic factors to consider and appear very limited with plausible options from nearby possibilities.

"16" looks like a nice number for scheduling and balance. But it essentially becomes "two conferences in one", and not everyone playing everyone else frequently enough, shall take some divisive toll over time.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:50 pm 
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OK, Louisville is headed to the ACC. Was the B12 being too conservative or too cautious in not taking L'ville? What about that partial bridge to WVU? Was it important? All that is left now for any plausible part of some bridge is Cincinnati.

Louisville may not have been the near perfect school for the B12, which they seriously considered earlier. But it would have "passed reasonably", considering what has been available.

Is the B12 divided about further expansion or are all the members are on the same page about holding at 10 for a longer period? Do they have a close-kept plan or will soon have their own reaction to the latest developments?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:03 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
OK, Louisville is headed to the ACC. Was the B12 being too conservative or too cautious in not taking L'ville? What about that partial bridge to WVU? Was it important? All that is left now for any plausible part of some bridge is Cincinnati.

Louisville may not have been the near perfect school for the B12, which they seriously considered earlier. But it would have "passed reasonably", considering what has been available.

Is the B12 divided about further expansion or are all the members are on the same page about holding at 10 for a longer period? Do they have a close-kept plan or will soon have their own reaction to the latest developments?

Texahoma not wanting to add any so they can get enough votes to get rid of the GoR and join the Pac 12 or they think they can land FSU and Clemson.

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