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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:30 am 
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NBC Sports article discussing report out of Providence that if either Louisville or UConn leave the BE the remaining BE BB schools "could" be in position to dissolve that league with a two-thirds majority vote of the remaining member schools.Link at http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... lve-league


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:21 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
NBC Sports article discussing report out of Providence that if either Louisville or UConn leave the BE the remaining BE BB schools "could" be in position to dissolve that league with a two-thirds majority vote of the remaining member schools.Link at http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... lve-league

So all the schools leaving for B1G, ACC, B12 won't have to pay off all or the rest of their exit fee? Doubt that. Everyone loves money and no one turns it down.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:26 pm 
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What they should do is agree to split and leave the BE name w/ bball schools and spread the exit fee money from the ones that left evenly among the 10 (7 bball/3 fb) schools.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:27 pm 
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frankthetank wrote:
I've long been a believer that it never made financial sense for either sides of the Big East (football members or Catholics) to split, but these latest circumstances are much different. The A-10 comparisons aren't valid - a league with Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's is going to draw much more interest from the TV networks.

IMHO, JPSchmack has it backwards. The football-playing schools have never been able to justify splitting from the Catholic schools at all financially, which is why the hybrid has continued on and on. Up to this point, both the football schools and Catholic schools needed each other together to draw out maximum TV value. Now, though, the balance of TV value has tipped in favor of the Catholic schools. They have the best TV markets. They have the traditional brand names. They have the perception of being "power schools" within their sphere of basketball as opposed to being "non-contract schools" for the Big East football members. The Catholic schools have much more leverage in comparison now.

The mistake a lot of people make is in believing that football *in and of itself* is the be all end all, when the reality is that there is only a small percentage of football schools that bring in outsized TV value. As a result, the fact that a group of not-very-valuable schools that happens to play FBS football doesn't automatically trump the value of a league made of strong basketball brand names such as Georgetown, Villanova, etc.


I respectfully disagree with some of what you said for a couple of reasons:

First, while Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova are more attractive to TV than the football-first C-USA/MWC schools; conference affiliation is a two-way street. It's not simply "what does this school bring to the conference" but "what do the conference and school bring each other." Lots of the value of Nova/GT/SJU stems from being in the Big East WITH Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Notre Dame, UConn, etc.

The value of playing those guys who left (or are leaving) is gone. The value of being in one of the best conferences in the country is gone. The value of the TV deal is also a two-way street. With ESPN telling everyone the Big East was so great and not mentioning the A-10, it became self-fulfilling. Recruits saw it and went to the Big East. Same with the SEC, Big Ten, etc. The Pac-10 had the biggest performance drought in their history when ESPN cut bait on them and went with the WCC instead? The Big West had Final Four teams when they were on Big Monday back in the 90s.

ESPN will go with football, because the quality of product for regular season basketball doesn't really matter all that much. ESPN creates the quality by only showing highlights from games they have TV rights to on SportsCenter, making recruits think those are the only schools that exist.

The ratings for college basketball in New York, Philly and DC aren't significant enough for ESPN to maintain their level of investment in the Catholic Schools. They can drop the "Catholic Half" of the Big East, put more ACC and Big Ten games on and call it a day. Especially with UConn, Syracuse, Maryland and Rutgers playing Duke, UNC, Michigan St, Indiana and Ohio State in conference now.

Football gets ratings because every game effects the title picture (a myth people believe), there's little TV competition for Saturdays, where as basketball has NOV-MAR every night of the week, tons of games on. It's not "EVENT" television like football.

Football *in and of itself* is not the be all end all.
But the demand for TV rights of football is still higher. The schools that play big time football have more money and are therefore usually better. The Big East hoops only schools get the publicity those football schools get. The A-10 does not. The basketball schools are worried that without football, they don't get that publicity any more and become like the A-10.

The A-10 is really good basketball that is just fine as a conference. But they don't get the respect they deserve. ESPN CONSTANTLY says things like "The A-10 is really good, they could be a multi-bid league this year. Maybe even three!" as backhanded compliments. The A-10 AVERAGES three bids, and has gotten 5 bids more often than they've gotten 1 bid. They've been better than the Pac-10 for about five years now… AND NO ONE KNOWS IT.

That's the fear of the basketball schools.

If ESPN wants basketball to split off and guarantees a contract? It'll happen.
If Football leaves, it'll happen (But football realizes they are C-USA without GT/Nova/Marq/SJU)

It's co-dependence. The basketball schools -- even with "the power" -- simply won't leave. It's financial suicide.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
NBC Sports article discussing report out of Providence that if either Louisville or UConn leave the BE the remaining BE BB schools "could" be in position to dissolve that league with a two-thirds majority vote of the remaining member schools.Link at http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... lve-league


What they're saying is that the terms of Big East by-laws create a scenario that would enable the hoops schools to make a power play... IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED.

But it's like saying "Congress Can Vote To Declare War on Canada."
Yes, they can. The constitution gives them the power to vote on it and pass a declaration of war.

Do they actually WANT to? Most likely not.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:57 pm 
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JPSchmack wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
NBC Sports article discussing report out of Providence that if either Louisville or UConn leave the BE the remaining BE BB schools "could" be in position to dissolve that league with a two-thirds majority vote of the remaining member schools.Link at http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... lve-league


What they're saying is that the terms of Big East by-laws create a scenario that would enable the hoops schools to make a power play... IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED.

But it's like saying "Congress Can Vote To Declare War on Canada."
Yes, they can. The constitution gives them the power to vote on it and pass a declaration of war.

Do they actually WANT to? Most likely not.


Perhaps dissolving the conference as opposed to leaving could save them exit fees? It looks like we are at the point where the 7 non football are going to look into leaving. I wonder if the ACC grabbed three, would the other four still leave?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:05 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
JPSchmack wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
NBC Sports article discussing report out of Providence that if either Louisville or UConn leave the BE the remaining BE BB schools "could" be in position to dissolve that league with a two-thirds majority vote of the remaining member schools.Link at http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... lve-league


What they're saying is that the terms of Big East by-laws create a scenario that would enable the hoops schools to make a power play... IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED.

But it's like saying "Congress Can Vote To Declare War on Canada."
Yes, they can. The constitution gives them the power to vote on it and pass a declaration of war.

Do they actually WANT to? Most likely not.


Perhaps dissolving the conference as opposed to leaving could save them exit fees? It looks like we are at the point where the 7 non football are going to look into leaving. I wonder if the ACC grabbed three, would the other four still leave?


I'm wondering if the 2/3rds vote can be passed with 2/3rds of the CURRENT full members or if it's a 2/3rds vote of the 2013 members? If the incoming members (UCF, Memphis, Temple, SMU, Houston) aren't given a vote then a 2/3rds dissolution vote is very possible. With 15 current schools it would take 10 votes---Rutgers, Notre Dame, and whoever gets the ACC invite would all vote yes, saving themselves exit fees. Add the 7 hoops schools and you have 10 votes and the Big East is no more. The 7 hoops schools would have to have assurances from ESPN of a television contract before casting such a vote, but we have seen before that ESPN is not above meddling in conference affairs in order to get what they want.

There is also the possibility that St. John's, Villanova, and Georgetown, under orders from ESPN, could lull the other 4 into casting such votes only to stab them in the back and go to the ACC--a conference that ESPN is heavily invested in and which ESPN will do whatever it can to protect.

As for your question about those 4 staying if the other 3 left I think it would become a matter of the football schools "HIGHLY ENCOURAGING" them to go to the A-10. The collection of Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, and Marquette literally do nothing for the football schools who would be left over at that point. Remember when C-USA realigned in the wake of the 2005 realignment and became a southern football league? Deals were brokered to get the basketball schools (St Louis and Charlotte) the best home they could get. I see the same thing happening in this scenario.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:29 am 
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Not sure their count of FB members is correct. Isn't Temple in the BE NOW ?

There were 8, TCU was to be 9 but left before they ever played a game.
WVU left for Big XII this summer, Temple replaced them as FB #8.
Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers have announced their departure.
UConn, Cincy, Louisville, USF still aboard right now.

So if one of UConn or Louisville get plucked by ACC, the BE still has the other + Cincy, + USF + Temple = 4 (or am I missing something ?)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:41 am 
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Temple is only in for football now. On July 1, 2013 Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF and Memphis become voting members.

When you announce plans to withdraw, you stop being a voting member. So that leaves 11 voting members of the Big East. If UConn and Louisville both announce (before July 1, 2013) that they are leaving, there would be 9 voting members, and 7 of them would not have football.

The author proposes that the basketball schools COULD sacrifice the Big East brand name by dissolving the league because:
A - they MIGHT want to get away from football so badly it would be worth sacrificing the BE name AND
B - they MIGHT want to save the exit fee money so badly it would be worth sacrificing the BE name.

But that is pure silliness. We can argue about whether or not basketball wants to separate from football for hours, but ignore that for a second…

If they have voting power to dissolve the league, they have the POWER TO VOTE FOR ANYTHING!

They don't need to dissolve the league to avoid exit fees. They'd have the votes to change them to $1 and then all bail, leaving football behind. But even THAT is stupid: It leaves a very powerful Big East Basketball brand name with a bunch of football schools.

They could vote to revoke all the football schools memberships: Eject Cincy 7-2, USF 7-1, and the rest 7-0.

Or they could do the really smart thing:
Vote to raise exit fees to $50 million
Vote to establish full TV rights revenue sharing regardless of sport sponsorship (but keep basketball sharing make it, take it).

If ESPN gave the Big East the same TV deal as before, the basketball schools would be collecting $3.86 million more a year each (USF/Cincy would be taking a $1.33 million pay-cut).

That would force the football schools to leave, and they'd have to pay the basketball schools $400 million combined in exit fees. And then basketball would keep the Big East name for their conference when they invite Xavier, Dayton, Butler, Saint Louis and Richmond.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:59 am 
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Technically, the defectors do still have voting rights. It's just that in those cases, those programs abstain out of courtesy. Such a vote now with so many actual and potential outbound schools do the bballers no good. So, it's gridlock.

I think the reality of why this whole thing is still afloat is that whatever awaits the basketball schools in the next life, their chances of making anything at or over a million per reside between slim and none. Not even the best of the A-10 can save it. Football is the only thing making schools money.

Were the conference to dissolve, there's still programs like Villanova who are still studying football upgrades; I wouldn't bet on them for the long term. I suspect G-town has options, too.

Whatever happens, I love it. Couldn't happen to a bigger bunch of political snobs.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:09 am 
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Rutgers is going to the Big Ten UConn looks like they’re going to the ACC with possibly another Big East school like Cincinnati or South Florida

Boise State and San Diego state are now talking about returning to the Mountain West the Big East basketball schools have enough votes (until next July) to dissolve the Big East and form their own league without football members


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 pm 
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FranktheTank blog article discussing Big East realignment rumors at http://frankthetank.wordpress.com


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Tulane to BE?:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8682572

Edit:Fixed your link,Freaked


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:19 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
Tulane to BE?:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8682572/


I saw that too. Brett McMurphy is saying on Twitter that ECU has a football only invite too. I'm curious to see how this plays out.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:19 pm 
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And ECU?:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... a78913c52a
Why don't they just rename it CUSA2?



Edit:Fixed your link,Freaked


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