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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:37 am 
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This could very well turn into a hand-check that seeks to out and expose who's talking to whom. I can't say I wouldn't enjoy that...I hate how these things, especially the B1G ones, sound like spy novels, with secret meetings in hotels, NDA's, countless flights, etc. This has got to get itself under control.

I don't know where the B1G goes next, but I don't think it will be the ACC. The overwhelming approval for the $50m buyout, the collective approval for legal action against UMD...that's real stuff that makes any further defections from the conference a VERY expensive endeavor, no matter how the lawsuit pans out. And how UMD is treated now WILL impact the receptivity toward other schools in the future. I'm curious if any ACC schools recuse themselves from the suit...that could be a tell (and if FSU backs out, then hang on, folks).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:21 pm 
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OK, responses to Quinn, tkalmus, Seanbo, Ant29; Appreciate the replies....

I suppose I stirred some discussion. I'll admit I have my individual preferences per the SEC, but pursing VPI is not one of them. From a geographic standpoint, VPI is close to the Univ. of Tennessee, but also Wake Forest and others in the ACC. I have long thought that in the ACC, the State of North Carolina has too many schools in it which, at times, has posed problems in the ACC on a variety of matters. Perhaps NC State would be the school best to break from the lot.
My comments were sort of tounge-in-cheek, mainly from the standpoint at the sugguestions, from wherever, that the B1G was poised to further extract from the ACC whom all they wanted with priorty pickings. My point, while the B1G taking the Univ. of Maryland was an often spoken possibility, the announcement appeared to be a suprise. I doubt the B1G can do an encore on this in such a secret way, because additional players have been alerted, and probably were not asleep on this anyway.

There ARE rumblings that other ACC teams are reaching out to other power conferences in a serious effort to move, or have options "just in case". There may be over-reaction involved also.

What is happening in the ACC, may not be so very different than what happened in the B12 during the past couple of years or so. You know the story and the details; and the B12 ending up remaining viable. So far, the ACC has lost just one school. Sure it was a hit, with Maryland leaving the ACC in comparative context to Nebraska leaving the B12---both at different times to the B10. Three others eventually left the B12 on the heels of that move. With schools such as Texas and OU eventually deciding to remain in the B12, the bleeding stopped. Could the ACC lose a few more? That is plausible if this 16/plus mega-conference stuff is continued to be pursued. My point, I believe the ACC survives, and retaining much of their prominent schools. Sure, losing a school such as FSU is conceivable, but breaking apart the North Carolina schools and probably the Virginia schools is a tougher nut to crack. They are the core of the ACC; and frankly during recent times, Maryland had reservations per the ACC to go along with their reveune defict. On a functionary level, NC State may be the N.C. school least bonded with the UNC/Duke/UVA priorities mentality; but NC State is also under the University of North Carolina System of governance. Leaving alone, would be a tough hurdle for NCSU.

As to Clemson, they have rabid fans and do deliver. True, they are not such a national brand in name-recognition such as ND, Texas, USC, Alabama, Ohio State, etc. But, they are notable in the southeast, and geographically real close to Georgia, Tennessee, and South Carolina. The rivalries are ready-made. However, South Carolina is not a huge state, and recruiting battles in the region are fierce. It's recruiting and exposure factors that play into in-footprint resistance. Given FSU's strong national brand and name recognition, and the size of the State of Florida, others in the SEC may view adding FSU is an overall bigger plus than seeking a less distinct school in an adjoining new state.

Personally, I am not keen on conferences going beyong 14, given that a few have already reached 14. With 12 regular season games scheduled of which 3 to 4 are OOCs', 14 is plenty for two divisions and a CCG. And for 18 to 20 or so bb conference games, 14 members is plenty also. For other olympic sports, less could work best, given travel and related issues.
For the super-conferences, there are always going to be exploratory possibilities for market enhancements in adjacent states.

Why must there just be 4 super-duper conferences that control all---money, media, playoffs, the haves and have-nots, etc.? And if THEY are really doing this as a goal, they are going about this in a haphazard fashion with no guiding oversight plan collectively agreed upon.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:42 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Personally, I am not keen on conferences going beyong 14, given that a few have already reached 14. With 12 regular season games scheduled of which 3 to 4 are OOCs', 14 is plenty for two divisions and a CCG.


The model the PAC-12 was using last year, if they expanded to 16, I think was what everybody else will use in getting to 16 team conferences. Break everything up in 4, 4 team pods. Play everyone in your pod once, and rotate playing one other pod yearly. This gives you 7 conference games, and you can have one out of pod "lock in" game yearly, thus giving you 8 conferences games. Then, you can schedule 3 other games, so teams like UF can schedule the Citadel, Troy, UL-Monroe, Bowling Green, FAU, or whatever other lamb wants to visit the swamp.

The end result is you will have 4 pod winners, playing two semifinal games and then a championship game. Increased TV revenue? You know a conference like the SEC would love a scenario like this! First weekend of December they have their semifinals, then the second weekend they stage their championship game! Talk about a revenue windfall!

Greed will drive this gravy train. As long as one conference does it, they will all do it.

Just to do a little "future" gazing using a potential pod divisional format and NC St and VT in the SEC.

Pod A: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri
Pod B: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Pod C: UF, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Pod D: NC St, VT, South Carolina, Kentucky

Pod winners play: LSU Vs. South Carolina and Alabama Vs. Georgia

Those winners playing for the SEC Championship the following week.

* Team, pods, playoff seeding are only being used to show how such a set-up could work. It is not my attempt to say any team would be joining the SEC, or this is the way any pod divisions would be broken up. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:38 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
As to the 4 mega-conference 16 member stuff, what would the PAC12 suppose to do, add Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, & BC? These sling-shot tactics trying to please TV network executives may end up backfiring and diluting the product.


People say 4 x 16 simply because the human brain craves symetry. We NEVER had a single day of 6 x 12, why would everyone get to 16 at the same time?

It's the same thing with division alignments and geography: You don't make decisions based on a map or a round, symetrical number. You make decisions on long-term financial ramifications.

Really, only Boise State brings a financial advantage for the Pac-12 to expand (barring the Big 12 splitting up and Texas, Oklahoma or Kansas being interested). And while Boise State football is a quality program, their other sports leave a lot to be desired for the "Conference of Champions." If BYU wasn't blatantly mormon, the would have made sense, too, but you've got Utah, so they're really unnecessary for TV purposes.

The best long-term move they could make would probably to get Boise State and convince Gonzaga to add FBS football and join them. It doesn't really add much to the TV side of things, but it does two important things:
#1 - increase quality in both football (Boise) and basketball (Gonzaga)
#2 - undercuts the WCC and MWC and halts the rise of those conferences as challengers to their throne of top western conference.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Gonzaga seriously? Washington and Washington St. say no. Gonzaga just gonna start fb and de-emphasize their bball team. Never.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:57 pm 
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The Catholic schools declared war on the football culture back in the 50's. If a Catholic school doesn't field a team today, it won't again until another lifetime.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:47 am 
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I would love to see Gonzaga have a football team...but not in the PAC-12, maybe if the WAC didn't fall apart.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:56 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Gonzaga seriously? Washington and Washington St. say no. Gonzaga just gonna start fb and de-emphasize their bball team. Never.

The Bishin Cutter wrote:
The Catholic schools declared war on the football culture back in the 50's. If a Catholic school doesn't field a team today, it won't again until another lifetime.


I agree! I was merely showing how slim the pickings are out west! No one "moves the needle."

Who else is there? New Mexico? UTEP? UNLV?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:14 am 
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There's no one but if they were forced to 16 w/o B12 schools. Hawaii, UNLV, New Mexico, Boise St.

Too bad BYU won't cave on anything or they coulda been in.

All of this will never happen. Texahoma finding the loophole to get out or waiting for the GoR to be up or nothing will happen before that

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:02 am 
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JPSchmack wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Gonzaga seriously? Washington and Washington St. say no. Gonzaga just gonna start fb and de-emphasize their bball team. Never.

The Bishin Cutter wrote:
The Catholic schools declared war on the football culture back in the 50's. If a Catholic school doesn't field a team today, it won't again until another lifetime.


I agree! I was merely showing how slim the pickings are out west! No one "moves the needle."

Who else is there? New Mexico? UTEP? UNLV?


BYU and AFA. Both are national. One isn't wanted, and the other doesn't feel it could remain viable if there.

SDSU isn't the worst possible candidate. Even though the PAC controls California, they aren't technically in San Diego, and SDSU has shown life in the money sports. It's kind of like Pitt to the Big Ten...good program, although redundant.

I think Hawaii, UNM, UNR, and CSU are worth a look, but they need a whole heck of a lot of help. I like Hawaii the best of that bunch, but it's been pillaged and plundered by the LA schools and the Mormons for years.

Part of me can't get my mind off of Rice. As C-USA falls into directional school hell, that Southern Ivy is just sitting there in Houston PRAYING for something to save them. Tulane got its temporary reprieve, but Rice kind of exists as a huge market grab...a mini-Rutgers of sorts. For both the B1G and PAC, I think they are out there for the taking...you get the market, you get an elite school, and you get a look into Texas. And Rice has a very good relationship with Austin...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Cutter,

Good to hear the mention of Rice again. If these conferences are all trying to look "so academic" as they claim to value, then Rice should be a real consideration. Rice gets dismissed largely due to not having sustained fb sucess, and their bb has not been impressive. Now, if they could pull a "Baylor" and overcome much of the athletic disappointments, they would receive enhanced attraction. Of course Baylor, not being as academically elite as Rice, has the advantage of the B12 to build success. Rice does have an impressive baseball program.

Also, Rice's undergraduate student body is one of the smallest in FBS. They do have distinguished alumni/boosters from their professional schools. However, cross-town rival, public-supported Houston, received more of the re-alignment focus.

Rice was one of the couple or so in the old Southwest Conference that did not dip themselves into scandals.

Rice, several years back, renovated their old 70-something thousand seat stadium to an uplifted, and scaled-down 40-something thousand.

Hypothetically, IF Rice had been athletically very strong in the fb domain, and proven for an extended time (like TCU), maybe they could have even been a considered partner with Texas A&M that came into the SEC (think, another Vanderbilt in institutional profile) or picked up by the B12.

Rice is the only old SWC school not offered at least the BE, let alone the more power conferences.

Agree though, Rice has some attractive features---fine academics, an appealing location and market, from a huge state that supports college fb, and a history of once being in a strong conference.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Article out of Des Moines discussing possible future Big Ten expansion at http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... nav%7Chead


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Rice's size isn't the issue as much as their administration's cluelessness/apathy of athletics. Even as they move forward with a more permanent downsizing of Rice Stadium, you can hear the conflict of interest in the same story:

Quote:
“We’ve seen the benefits of recent investments in the basketball, baseball, volleyball and track facilities, and Rice’s football program is in line for similar support from the many alumni and fans who value what this means for the student-athletes and the university,” said Jim Crownover, chairman of the Rice board.


versus...

Quote:
“Hopefully this will dispel any erroneous thought that Rice isn’t committed to or care about (Division) I-A football,” Rice athletic director Rick Greenspan said. “We can have a very successful program here.”

“We’re going to raise the money for the project,” Greenspan said. “We’re not going to incur that type of indebtedness.”


The Board is talking about the $23m for Autry/Tudor, the gem that is Reckling, and some of the other facilities they built around the days they were in the WAC. Not as impressive as Tulane's pre and post-Katrina spending, but then again, when you get something like a Katrina that make projects in NOLA favorable, it's not exactly a fair fight when Houston sees such growth.

Still, Greenspan puts that commitment into perspective.

I hear they are not passive after learning of Tulane's move. The issue for Rice, well, one of the issues beyond axing their leadership, is getting as far from UH as possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:09 pm 
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AJC blog article with comments from GT President regarding Big Ten/GT situation at http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-tech-sport ... ech_sports


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:40 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
The Board is talking about the $23m for Autry/Tudor, the gem that is Reckling, and some of the other facilities they built around the days they were in the WAC. Not as impressive as Tulane's pre and post-Katrina spending, but then again, when you get something like a Katrina that make projects in NOLA favorable, it's not exactly a fair fight when Houston sees such growth.


Well, it's not like Katrina wiped out all the old facilities so they HAD to build a new basketball arena or on-campus football stadium.
(They were rebuilding the baseball stadium BEFORE Katrina, they had to start over).

But what Katrina brought Tulane was a crossroads moment. It was a "what are we doing here? We're either serious about athletics or were not." They looked at what they wanted their athletic program to be, what it was going to take to get there and decided it was worth it to chase that. No other school has a situation like that. They also had a waiver from the NCAA to cut their expenses down to six sports (technically eight, but cross country/indoor track/outdoor track was basically ONE).

It's actually kind of interesting how their spending came about. After the baseball stadium was done, they wanted to build a new basketball arena. But the issue of where they could practice and play while it was razed/rebuilt led to the discovery that:

a) they should build a practice facility first.
b) Rebuilding a basketball arena was going to cost so much money, and for the same price, they'd much rather have an on-campus football stadium.
c) a renovation of the basketball arena using the existing walls would be way cheaper than a complete rebuild, could be accomplished in a shorter time frame, with no revenue lost of missing home games; AND would enable them to afford BOTH a basketball arena and football stadium.
d) When you tell donors that the football project can only happen if the basketball projects happen at the same time, you get your money.

I would hope Rice would see a rebirth and not be left behind. They could be a valuable program.

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