PAC-12 Realignment & Expansion Thread

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

tkalmus wrote:

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

The CSU system is nearly twice the size of UC's, even if on the second tier, it's not like SDSU is a clown college (I'd argue that if TTU is considered, SDSU is virtually no different, other than a zip).

The difference is that Tech is a means to an end (Texas) and SDSU is just an end. The PAC 12 would never take Tech by themselves, as I suspect they would never take SDSU by themselves (unless they need 1 school to even out divisions or political pressure of what not). If SDSU truly wants in the PAC12 changing their name to Cal State should be one of the first things they do.

I would not see the point in Texas Tech for the Pac-12. I'd take Houston over Tech in a heartbeat.

Is there a flagship campus for the Cal State system? I don't even know.

Quinn · **Joined:** Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:05 am **Posts:** 3757

JPSchmack wrote:

tkalmus wrote:

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

The CSU system is nearly twice the size of UC's, even if on the second tier, it's not like SDSU is a clown college (I'd argue that if TTU is considered, SDSU is virtually no different, other than a zip).

The difference is that Tech is a means to an end (Texas) and SDSU is just an end. The PAC 12 would never take Tech by themselves, as I suspect they would never take SDSU by themselves (unless they need 1 school to even out divisions or political pressure of what not). If SDSU truly wants in the PAC12 changing their name to Cal State should be one of the first things they do.

I would not see the point in Texas Tech for the Pac-12. I'd take Houston over Tech in a heartbeat.

Is there a flagship campus for the Cal State system? I don't even know.

Yes, San Jose St. is the flagship school in the Cal St. system, much like Cal-Berkley is the flagship of the UC system.

Here's an article I wrote in May 2011 on marketing, branding, and potential benefits of a San Jose St. name change to California State:

Is It Time for San Jose St. to Consider a Name Change to California St?

The Bishin Cutter · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am **Posts:** 541

The problem is, SJSU may have been the "first" campus in the system that was to be expanded and named Cal State, but it was not treated as a "main campus" or primary location for the system, like Berkeley was/is able to enjoy historically and politically in the UC system. It's not really a flagship, especially depending on who you're asking (LA, for example, which was absorbed by UC...thus UCLA). I think SDSU, who is the bigger research school (or, at least, the one with the bigger endowment), a national university distinction, the lower admit rate may also take offense with that notion. The metrics point toward *them* being the flagship. Their faculty probably feel the same.

I like the California system, although I do understand the naming benefits from a marketing perspective.

westwolf · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:26 pm

It's time for San Jose St to draw more than 9,228 per game (2012 average).

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

The problem is, SJSU may have been the "first" campus in the system that was to be expanded and named Cal State, but it was not treated as a "main campus" or primary location for the system, like Berkeley was/is able to enjoy historically and politically in the UC system. It's not really a flagship, especially depending on who you're asking (LA, for example, which was absorbed by UC...thus UCLA). I think SDSU, who is the bigger research school (or, at least, the one with the bigger endowment), a national university distinction, the lower admit rate may also take offense with that notion. The metrics point toward *them* being the flagship. Their faculty probably feel the same.

I like the California system, although I do understand the naming benefits from a marketing perspective.

SJSU is the oldest CSU, older than any UC as well, so some do refer to SJSU simply as Cal State, but that's really only in SJ. I imagine you are correct that if SJSU tried to change its name to Cal State SDSU would be mad and vice versa.

But let's not act like SJSU is the little red headed step child or something. According to Forbes top colleges (http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list ... l%20states) SJSU ranks 315, SDSU 355, and FSU 359.

I think a lot of people from outside California don't realize just how much control over SoCal USC and UCLA have. Elevating SDSU to "Cal State" or adding them to the Pac 12 would cost those two a lot and they'd be the first to block them. There are plenty of people from San Diego that are much bigger fans of USC than SDSU.

But most importantly, as long as the California State University logo claims they were founded in 1857 (SJSU's founding year), SJSU is the only school that can be called Cal State. More than likely, no one will change their name.

Maybe SJSU could be North California State University and SDSU could be South California State University.

sec03 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1231

If all the current PAC12 schools outside the State of California view, as they have expressed, that it is important to play games in California each season for recruiting and exposure, then it indicates California is not overly saturated with colleges for top recruits, or there is significant dependency there for recruits to feed all PAC 12 schools. Thus, adding another California campus showing compatibility with this desire, should be given substantive consideration.

SJSUFan2010; that's a dandy SJSU fb team this season; I hope they sustain the fine success.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:05 pm

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

The problem is, SJSU may have been the "first" campus in the system that was to be expanded and named Cal State, but it was not treated as a "main campus" or primary location for the system, like Berkeley was/is able to enjoy historically and politically in the UC system. It's not really a flagship, especially depending on who you're asking (LA, for example, which was absorbed by UC...thus UCLA). I think SDSU, who is the bigger research school (or, at least, the one with the bigger endowment), a national university distinction, the lower admit rate may also take offense with that notion. The metrics point toward *them* being the flagship. Their faculty probably feel the same.

I like the California system, although I do understand the naming benefits from a marketing perspective.

SJSU is the oldest CSU, older than any UC as well, so some do refer to SJSU simply as Cal State, but that's really only in SJ. I imagine you are correct that if SJSU tried to change its name to Cal State SDSU would be mad and vice versa.

But let's not act like SJSU is the little red headed step child or something. According to Forbes top colleges (http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list ... l%20states) SJSU ranks 315, SDSU 355, and FSU 359.

I think a lot of people from outside California don't realize just how much control over SoCal USC and UCLA have. Elevating SDSU to "Cal State" or adding them to the Pac 12 would cost those two a lot and they'd be the first to block them. There are plenty of people from San Diego that are much bigger fans of USC than SDSU.

But most importantly, as long as the California State University logo claims they were founded in 1857 (SJSU's founding year), SJSU is the only school that can be called Cal State. More than likely, no one will change their name.

Maybe SJSU could be North California State University and SDSU could be South California State University.

What are we gonna be Central California St.? The 3 of us are better off w/ our city names, Why become a directional school? Thats why NE Louisiana, SW Louisiana, SW Texas St. changed their names. SE La didn't get the memo to be UL-Hammond

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

University name changes are extremely political.

That's why Ohio State always harps on "THE" because they aren't the first land-grant state school in Ohio. That's Ohio University.
That's why OSU fans chant, and the band spells out O-H-I-O, and they've been involved in a century long endeavor to usurp OU (which has clearly succeeded).

In Louisiana, Southwestern Louisiana and Northeastern Louisiana ended up changing their names to Univeristy of Louisiana at Lafayette and Univeristy of Louisiana at Monroe; but that was after a ULL tried to change it to "Univeristy of Louisiana."

But LSU got upset, and since all the state politicans are LSU fans, in the wods of the ULL SID in 1984:
"Some people from a certain other university in Baton Rouge, which will remain nameless, didn't like that. So they went to the Legislature and had a law passed that said a state university couldn't change its name unless the Legislature said it could."
And all the LSU fans in the Legislature have been fighting it ever since.

They eventually got ULL passed, but their wordmarks are comically unbalance to minimize Lafayette and scream University of Louisiana. I think LSU and the legislature actually tried to place restrictions on the ratio of size from Louisiana to Lafayette in their graphic standards.

The chances SDSU or SJSU can effectively change their name to Cal State with no other designation is extremely slim. There will be way too much opposition. ULL was really only going head-to-head with ONE school; One would have to imagine the entire Cal State and UC systems would be against one becoming "Cal State"

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 467

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

The problem is, SJSU may have been the "first" campus in the system that was to be expanded and named Cal State, but it was not treated as a "main campus" or primary location for the system, like Berkeley was/is able to enjoy historically and politically in the UC system. It's not really a flagship, especially depending on who you're asking (LA, for example, which was absorbed by UC...thus UCLA). I think SDSU, who is the bigger research school (or, at least, the one with the bigger endowment), a national university distinction, the lower admit rate may also take offense with that notion. The metrics point toward *them* being the flagship. Their faculty probably feel the same.

I like the California system, although I do understand the naming benefits from a marketing perspective.

SJSU is the oldest CSU, older than any UC as well, so some do refer to SJSU simply as Cal State, but that's really only in SJ. I imagine you are correct that if SJSU tried to change its name to Cal State SDSU would be mad and vice versa.

But let's not act like SJSU is the little red headed step child or something. According to Forbes top colleges (http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list ... l%20states) SJSU ranks 315, SDSU 355, and FSU 359.

I think a lot of people from outside California don't realize just how much control over SoCal USC and UCLA have. Elevating SDSU to "Cal State" or adding them to the Pac 12 would cost those two a lot and they'd be the first to block them. There are plenty of people from San Diego that are much bigger fans of USC than SDSU.

But most importantly, as long as the California State University logo claims they were founded in 1857 (SJSU's founding year), SJSU is the only school that can be called Cal State. More than likely, no one will change their name.

Maybe SJSU could be North California State University and SDSU could be South California State University.

What are we gonna be Central California St.? The 3 of us are better off w/ our city names, Why become a directional school? Thats why NE Louisiana, SW Louisiana, SW Texas St. changed their names. SE La didn't get the memo to be UL-Hammond

Yeah I completely agree with you. The reason we can use city names is because they're large cities people have actually heard of.

The Bishin Cutter · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am **Posts:** 541

JPSchmack wrote:

The chances SDSU or SJSU can effectively change their name to Cal State with no other designation is extremely slim. There will be way too much opposition. ULL was really only going head-to-head with ONE school; One would have to imagine the entire Cal State and UC systems would be against one becoming "Cal State"

That's my drift. SJSU has the age metric going for it, but UCLA is the one that became a UC school, and a flagship designation in that system no less. SDSU can boast its own metrics for that title, Cal Poly (SLO) has theirs, Chico's in there, and Fullerton and Long Beach too.

JPSchmack · **Joined:** Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:21 pm **Posts:** 851

Yeah, if ULL couldn't get it done in a state with 11 D-I colleges, when their major opposition was one school....

SDSU would get it done with 23 (I think) D-I schools, major opposition from SJSU, 22 other Cal State schools (maybe only 16-18, Cal Poly and some non-DI might not care); UCLA and Cal, UCSD, etc, etc.

footballgod · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:57 pm

I can see the PAC-12 adding Nevada and UNLV maybe Hawaii and i cant figure the 4th school is maybe New Mexico, Utah St or Colorado St. Basically the Big 12 and Pac-12 will split the MWC conference.

lew240z · **Joined:** Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:38 pm **Posts:** 10

None of these schools has what the PAC wants. CSU does have a fairly large amount of research grants. Bigger the CU's has a matter of fact. But CU will never be in the same conference as CSU. And CU and CSU are in the same tv market.

NorwichCat11 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:56 pm **Posts:** 71

What do you guys think of the PAC adding - Boise St., Nevada, Utah St., and New Mexico? I know they are smaller schools that are not up to par right now with the rest of the PAC, but the do have the potential to become major players if given the opportunity. Could they be PAC eligible schools?

westwolf · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:26 pm

NorwichCat11 wrote:

What do you guys think of the PAC adding - Boise St., Nevada, Utah St., and New Mexico? I know they are smaller schools that are not up to par right now with the rest of the PAC, but the do have the potential to become major players if given the opportunity. Could they be PAC eligible schools?

No.

PAC-12 Realignment & Expansion Thread

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