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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:42 am 
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USAToday article discussing ACC Presidents commitment statement at http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... nt/1752757


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:29 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
USAToday article discussing ACC Presidents commitment statement at http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... nt/1752757

This USA Today article hits the nail on the head. Desperation is the word!

Just like the original raid on the Big East by the ACC in 2003, the same approach occurred with the Big East out of desperation that is now occurring within the ACC.

I do believe we are heading to four power conferences and this is the evolution of this process.

I am not sure we necessarily will have four super conferences of cookie cutter size. We are most likely are heading to four major power conferences when the dust finally settles.

There are four chairs at the power conference table and the ACC got caught standing when the music stopped.

The Pac 12 and Big Ten have long sense had GOR signed over and once the Big 12 settled down, every member signed the same GOR which stabilized the Big 12 along with a power league TV contact and provided the Big 12 a chair at the power conference table. The SEC success in football secured its seat at the table during the BCS run.

I would not be too worried about schools being left out because just like the original Big East every school moved into a power league with the exception of Temple that got the boot. Judging by this year attendance records, Temple is always going to be Temple and does not have the support to be a Major football school.

The plan is already in place and we are just seeing it worked out in slow motion. Once the Sugar and Rose bowls kick into play in 2014, we are seeing the first step of this plan take hold with four power conferences (translate the word power for money).

The folks that run college football never have wanted a full playoff system and replace the bowls and at the same time retain most of the power (money).

Consolidating into four power conference make the process more easy to control the money without necessarily bolting from the NCAA.

Just like most of the original schools that left the Big East which is no longer a power league the same evolution is occurring within the ACC.

Once a major football schools such as Florida State bolts it will be the same situation that occurred when Miami left the Big East in 2003.

Most if not all of the ACC schools will find homes in one of the four power leagues. It is just the pecking order that will determine which schools goes first.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:10 pm 
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lash wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
USAToday article discussing ACC Presidents commitment statement at http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... nt/1752757

This USA Today article hits the nail on the head. Desperation is the word!

Just like the original raid on the Big East by the ACC in 2003, the same approach occurred with the Big East out of desperation that is now occurring within the ACC.

I do believe we are heading to four power conferences and this is the evolution of this process.

I am not sure we necessarily will have four super conferences of cookie cutter size. We are most likely are heading to four major power conferences when the dust finally settles.

There are four chairs at the power conference table and the ACC got caught standing when the music stopped.



The Pac 12 and Big Ten have long sense had GOR signed over and once the Big 12 settled down, every member signed the same GOR which stabilized the Big 12 along with a power league TV contact and provided the Big 12 a chair at the power conference table. The SEC success in football secured its seat at the table during the BCS run.

I would not be too worried about schools being left out because just like the original Big East every school moved into a power league with the exception of Temple that got the boot. Judging by this year attendance records, Temple is always going to be Temple and does not have the support to be a Major football school.

The plan is already in place and we are just seeing it worked out in slow motion. Once the Sugar and Rose bowls kick into play in 2014, we are seeing the first step of this plan take hold with four power conferences (translate the word power for money).

The folks that run college football never have wanted a full playoff system and replace the bowls and at the same time retain most of the power (money).

Consolidating into four power conference make the process more easy to control the money without necessarily bolting from the NCAA.

Just like most of the original schools that left the Big East which is no longer a power league the same evolution is occurring within the ACC.

Once a major football schools such as Florida State bolts it will be the same situation that occurred when Miami left the Big East in 2003.

Most if not all of the ACC schools will find homes in one of the four power leagues. It is just the pecking order that will determine which schools goes first.



Indeed. The way things are going, I can say I wouldn't be shocked if 10 years from now, the ACC had a completely new look.

In the quest for more money, I could see the SEC makes it's play for VA Tech and an NC school, not a stretch to think NC State, given the instant boom of taking TAMU away from Texas and making them a bigger fish.

I could see the Big 10+4 adding Virginia and UNC to go with Maryland.

And since Texas and Oklahoma are power brokers, I could see the Big 12 make a push to get to get more in the south east via Florida St., Miami, GA Tech and Clemson.

With football being such a priority, it's scary to think that Duke could be left out, but if the Big Ten doesn't take them, who would?

In the end, the ACC could be where the Big East is now...adding what it can to fill the gaps:

ACC North: BC, UMass, Uconn, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple
ACC South: Cincinnati, Louisville, Duke, Wake Forest, UCF, USF

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:43 pm 
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I had a thought. The ACC is feeling really threatened. The individual schools might feel compelled to do things they don't otherwise want to do, if they sense the dominoes starting to fall.

They might be the odd man out if these is some sort of consolidation to 4 conferences.

Think outside the box, for a minute... they have two things the Big ten wants right now. The East Coast and Notre Dame.

WHAT IF.... Swofford calls up Delany and says: "Let's talk merger - you + us + UConn = 30 teams - we own the upper rmidwest / great lakes / rust belt / entire Atlantic seaboard."
Doesn't ABC/ESPN (Disney) have agrements with both ?
If you could get them on board, and then somehow let the BTN buy up the 3rd tier rights to the ACC, and expand the BTN concept up and down the east coast... Voila !

Maybe something like this stops the insanity. The movement is inexorably to join up all the big schools.
But the current method of pitting schools against each other, and spending huge exit and entrance fees (for WHAT ?).

Some say the end game is all of these schools leaving the NCAA, but could they accomplish the same "money-grubbing clustering" by all getting together in some mega-conference(s) ?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Quinn,
I believe it is too soon to reach the conclusion that the ACC is on the verge of demise, let alone indicate which schools are going where. The assumption the conference on the far east coast is suppose to feed at least three others with all their expansion desires may not fall that way.

The B12 lost one, then two, then three, then four; and near everyone else was looking around and exploring elsewhere. The 12 survived, and added one BE member (WVU), and one BE commitment (TCU). So, with the ACC having lost Maryland to the B10, it is no guarantee two more shall head for the B1G, two to the SEC, and four to the B12.

I doubt the B1G will end up in Georgia and North Carolina.

I do agree expansion/re-alignment shall continue, and the ACC shall be impacted further in some way. I also believe the B12 is not immune to others leaving down the road. Two or three of those schools could be available for extraction, eastward or westward. I also believe the PAC12, the SEC, and the B1G, are the conferences that shall not lose anybody, but would only potentially add.

I know the idea behind most of this is to have a tidy 4-team playoff with a representative from each of 4 "mega power conferences". If ultimately reached, getting there will be a really nasty process, and battering up just the ACC alone shall not get 'em to the ultimate goal, however such may be defined.

The ACC's "we are together in love statement" does suggest vulnerbility and they should have played solidarity "down", rather than "up", being void of a GoR agreement. Oh, and Notre Dame signed without a footnote they are an official fb independent.

These ACC Presidents didn't take WVU earlier; big mistake! But the did get their hybrid with ND; problems follow!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
lash wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
USAToday article discussing ACC Presidents commitment statement at http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... nt/1752757

This USA Today article hits the nail on the head. Desperation is the word!

Just like the original raid on the Big East by the ACC in 2003, the same approach occurred with the Big East out of desperation that is now occurring within the ACC.

I do believe we are heading to four power conferences and this is the evolution of this process.

I am not sure we necessarily will have four super conferences of cookie cutter size. We are most likely are heading to four major power conferences when the dust finally settles.

There are four chairs at the power conference table and the ACC got caught standing when the music stopped.



The Pac 12 and Big Ten have long sense had GOR signed over and once the Big 12 settled down, every member signed the same GOR which stabilized the Big 12 along with a power league TV contact and provided the Big 12 a chair at the power conference table. The SEC success in football secured its seat at the table during the BCS run.

I would not be too worried about schools being left out because just like the original Big East every school moved into a power league with the exception of Temple that got the boot. Judging by this year attendance records, Temple is always going to be Temple and does not have the support to be a Major football school.

The plan is already in place and we are just seeing it worked out in slow motion. Once the Sugar and Rose bowls kick into play in 2014, we are seeing the first step of this plan take hold with four power conferences (translate the word power for money).

The folks that run college football never have wanted a full playoff system and replace the bowls and at the same time retain most of the power (money).

Consolidating into four power conference make the process more easy to control the money without necessarily bolting from the NCAA.

Just like most of the original schools that left the Big East which is no longer a power league the same evolution is occurring within the ACC.

Once a major football schools such as Florida State bolts it will be the same situation that occurred when Miami left the Big East in 2003.

Most if not all of the ACC schools will find homes in one of the four power leagues. It is just the pecking order that will determine which schools goes first.



Indeed. The way things are going, I can say I wouldn't be shocked if 10 years from now, the ACC had a completely new look.

In the quest for more money, I could see the SEC makes it's play for VA Tech and an NC school, not a stretch to think NC State, given the instant boom of taking TAMU away from Texas and making them a bigger fish.

I could see the Big 10+4 adding Virginia and UNC to go with Maryland.

And since Texas and Oklahoma are power brokers, I could see the Big 12 make a push to get to get more in the south east via Florida St., Miami, GA Tech and Clemson.

With football being such a priority, it's scary to think that Duke could be left out, but if the Big Ten doesn't take them, who would?

In the end, the ACC could be where the Big East is now...adding what it can to fill the gaps:

ACC North: BC, UMass, Uconn, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple
ACC South: Cincinnati, Louisville, Duke, Wake Forest, UCF, USF

Quinn, there are many rumors that Florida State is shopping around and could end up in the Big Ten first before the Big 12 makes any moves.

I believe Florida State and Georgia Tech would be a home run hit for the Big Ten.

Once the Big Ten expands, then I believe the Big 12 will look around to see which two schools that may be willing to move and could bring in TV revenue.

Florida State would be on the top of the list for the Big 12 if available.

You have to believe Florida State is trying to get out of the ACC due to low payouts being project for the ACC.

If Florida State were able to get Big Ten interest, there could be some other interesting possibilities for the Big 12.

Other rumors have Duke and North Carolina to the SEC. If you think about this option, would not be a bad move by the SEC to sure up basketball and bring in the state of North Carolina.

Thinking out of the box, if the above moves were to occur the Big 12 could look at bringing in Virgina and Virgina Tech.

Virginia would be more acceptable to moving if Duke and North Carolina were gone to the SEC.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 pm 
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If I was the SEC I'd take national brand FSU and UNC. If UNC ends up in the B1G then VT.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:56 pm 
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The B10 is not seeking non-aau schools.Fla ST is not on the B10 board.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:57 am 
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Exactly ctx. FSU reportedly reached out to the Big Ten and was rejected.

I too think the SEC should drop their stance on instate rivals. FSU is a homerun for the SEC. Florida is the big market with Texas for the sport...since the SEC is king, they should dominate the market by having the top 2 programs.

I love VATech as the #16 as well. A football first program, access further north.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
If I was the SEC I'd take national brand FSU and UNC. If UNC ends up in the B1G then VT.


Fresno,
Certainly agree with you on the first sentence if further expansion followed a particular scenario. Per VPI, there could be others more plausible or desired, including NCSU, UVA, Clemson, or GT. Why must it be assumed new expansion must come from an adjoining new state with the potential flaw it assures higher broadcast revenue distribution per school over a particular nearer program? Most situations it may, but not necessarily all.

So many are assuming it's all ACC pickins'. What if Texas changed their mind? Beyond sleeping with the enemy, it's not like they haven't explored all kinds of possibilities in their recent past. New technologies and media developments could make the LHN a relic of the past in a few years. An OU/OSU combo, or some derivative of such, for someone? Perhaps not out of the question.

We need to remember that if North Carolina and Virginia schools become vulnerable for pickins' with a way more injured ACC, there is still the politics involved in those two states. FSU, Clemson, and GT don't have to deal with the politics of in-state sister schools with regard to "leaving", only as a matter of "joining" if it is the SEC, where opposition cannot be so overt. Maryland did not have to cope with some in-state school being left behind with broken ties.

And, if the SEC and B1G were in a position to get together to decide how to divide-up certain North Carolina and Virginia schools, there could be a big disagreement about that, and it's no assurance the B1G would just have its way, given the location and complications involved.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:56 pm 
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If were going to have 4 power conferences who rule college football I would like to see them work in tandem with each other and divide the massive television revenue they rake in evenly among the member institutions---think of the involved universities as franchises in an a model similar to the NFL. With making more money than the other power conferences and conference brinkmanship and expansion into new markets no longer being of concern we could essentially hit the reset switch within the new system and create smaller, regional conferences that would, to a degree, return things back to the pre-2004 set up. Think of John Nash's game theory from the film 'A Beautiful Mind"; everyone is better off when they are on the same channel and there are no losers in this game (except for those left out of the system). High profile rivalries like the Aggies and Longhorns would be restored and everyone would be making money off of that "made for tv" match up. Developing television networks for each conference would be a must. Another perk is that this system would create a virtual monopoly for college football and ESPN/FOX/CBS/NBC would have to pay whatever amount this college sports consortium demanded. (Maybe structure media deals for home games of a given division so that FOX might have the rights to the ACC Coastal, Big Ten Leaders, and Pac 12 South, while ESPN holds the rights to Big Ten Legends, SEC West, and Pac 12 North.)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Quinn wrote:
Exactly ctx. FSU reportedly reached out to the Big Ten and was rejected.

I too think the SEC should drop their stance on instate rivals. FSU is a homerun for the SEC. Florida is the big market with Texas for the sport...since the SEC is king, they should dominate the market by having the top 2 programs.

I love VATech as the #16 as well. A football first program, access further north.

I am not sure anyone would know if Florida State were actually turned down by the Big Ten. The rumor on the Florida State boards is the school is shopping around for a new league. This would indicate putting out fillers for any interested power league.

It is one thing if the Big Ten is holding up at the moment with 14 schools and is not ready to expand and another if the Big Ten would actually turn down Florida State because of lack of AAU membership.

I believe the Big Ten is too smart to make a mistake based on academic affiliation. I understand the AAU is one of the criteria for membership, however, Notre Dame would become a Big Ten member today if the school wanted to join.

The state of Florida alone would have nearly the same household TV sets as the combined states of North Carolina and Virginia. For sure the state of Florida has a much larger Big Ten fan base living in the state that would push for cable subscriptions.

If the Big Ten is expanding on pure academics criteria, to me it would be a stupid business decision to turn down Florida State based on AAU membership. I do not believe the Big Ten is stupid.

Now if the Big Ten has concerns with travel and distance from Midwest schools to Florida, that would make sense. Yet again Texas which is about the same distance on average did not appear to be an issue when the Big Ten was courting the Longhorns.

I can only go on what information that trickles out of the Big Ten and the only information that has come from TV execs that would have some type of inside to the Big Ten that Florida State could be a future target of the Big Ten.

Based on the above I do not believe the Big Ten has turned down Florida State.

I would not be at all surprised if there were a list of certain schools with or without AAU membership that could be potential members of the Big Ten in the future. if anyone believes the Big Ten was not aware Nebraska was about to lose AAU membership, every Big Ten school is a member of AAU. Big Ten Business sense expanded with Nebraska regardless of AAU membership.

I could see some schools being eliminated from consideration simply because of AAU membership if they did not bring in TV benefits.

Regardless of what we think of the Big Ten, their expansion moves are based on on thing and one thing only and that is Money.

If Florida State can make the Big Ten lots of money, I would never rule out this school as a future member of the Big Ten and many Big Ten insiders agree with me as well.

In fact a Chicago reporter was recentily intervied on ESPN and implied Florida State could very well be a target. This guy would have more inside infromationt o the Big Ten than any one posting on this board


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:35 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
If I was the SEC I'd take national brand FSU and UNC. If UNC ends up in the B1G then VT.


Fresno,
Certainly agree with you on the first sentence if further expansion followed a particular scenario. Per VPI, there could be others more plausible or desired, including NCSU, UVA, Clemson, or GT. Why must it be assumed new expansion must come from an adjoining new state with the potential flaw it assures higher broadcast revenue distribution per school over a particular nearer program? Most situations it may, but not necessarily all.

So many are assuming it's all ACC pickins'. What if Texas changed their mind? Beyond sleeping with the enemy, it's not like they haven't explored all kinds of possibilities in their recent past. New technologies and media developments could make the LHN a relic of the past in a few years. An OU/OSU combo, or some derivative of such, for someone? Perhaps not out of the question.

We need to remember that if North Carolina and Virginia schools become vulnerable for pickins' with a way more injured ACC, there is still the politics involved in those two states. FSU, Clemson, and GT don't have to deal with the politics of in-state sister schools with regard to "leaving", only as a matter of "joining" if it is the SEC, where opposition cannot be so overt. Maryland did not have to cope with some in-state school being left behind with broken ties.

And, if the SEC and B1G were in a position to get together to decide how to divide-up certain North Carolina and Virginia schools, there could be a big disagreement about that, and it's no assurance the B1G would just have its way, given the location and complications involved.

sec03, I can understand you concern with the instability of the ACC, however, have to make a comment on your and everyone assumptions of the Big 12.

Sure Texas could change it mind and decide to join the Pac 12 in the next decade once the GOR is up for renewal.

The simple fact when everyone tries to compares the ACC with the Big 12 instability when there is no comparison at the moment between the two leagues. It is the reason for the USA Today article which many of us have recently refereed is so valid in the current state of conference realignment.

The facts in today's world is the Big 12 is stable and the ACC is not. It is a true that both conference lost members, however, it is how they stabilized going forward is the key to how stable a conference will be in the future not what happened in the past.

Like or not Texas has signed GOR for next 13 years and the ACC schools including Florida State have not. In fact Florida State along with Maryland which has already agreed to leave the ACC did not sign the exit fee hikes which implies how Florida State actually believes in the stability of the future of the ACC.

If the ACC could somehow stop all conference realignment until the Big 12 GOR expires, the ACC may have a chance to convince schools the ACC is a better fit.

The problem is the ACC does not have the time and money is going to drive conference alignment and continue sooner than latter and the ACC is prime pic-kins for any league wanting schools located in good markets.

We can spin it any way we like, it does not change the football performance of how the ACC has fared over the last decade which reflect in the TV contact and weakness in the ACC ability to claim power conference status.

It is the very reason that Maryland is gone for more money and Florida State will most likely be gone very soon as well. Florida state will make an estimated 10 million less that the nearest power league school and overtime this will have major impacts on a school surronded by SEC competatiors.

The very reason the ACC was able to raid the Big East for so many years is the same reason the other power leagues are returning the favor. They have more money to offer ACC schools to leave.

Compare that to Texas and the Pac 12 can not offer Texas more money to leave the current setup in the Big 12. It is the reason Texas signed GOR and Florida State has not.

If you go back to the comments of the Big Ten Commissioner, you only sigh GOR after the fact when all schools are stable and for sure what to be where they are.

Time has simply run out on the ACC. Time to face reality.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:38 pm 
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The situation for FSU is not desperate at this point. Given the transition from the BCS format to the playoff arrangement forthcoming, FSU remains, for now, in a good situation. Despite their lull in domination with the Boddy Bowden late and immediately after period, FSU is poised to make another extended run as ACC fb kingpin. They'll have competition for it certain years, but should remain relatively steady. Reaching a playoff or top bowl will be much tougher in something like the SEC-east. If/when the ACC is further extracted, FSU may be among the first to go, but probably not from a B1g invitation which apparently was already explored. It will come down to money and stability.

If the idea is indeed 4-mega conferences, it is a conspiracy with the TV networks. And not even all the plausible state universities could be included unless a few go to 18, 20, 24? And where to dump the baggage?

Muskie's comment implying there could be new methodology to all this thinking was pensive.

These tactics of the networks saying, "we'll give you another X amount of dollars if you take this school from here and that school from there" with no cap and being dismissive of other traditional considerations shall have consequences certain Commissioner and Presidents may not have fully considered. Heading for new territory has its opportunities, but also unpredictable outcomes. Per the B1G, landing Maryland was a coup d'etat in terms of exposing the ACC's shaky solidarity after imposing excessive exit fees that did not include Maryland's and FSU's affirmative vote. And since they haven't been able to muster a formidable GoR, no new bonding letters from their schools' President is going to alter informed perceptions. The B1G taking Rutgers was not a difficult move at all; Rutgers was waiting for anything better. So if the B1G is truly seeking to have 16 and raid deep into the ACC, why not have tried for UVA first, along with Maryland....doing the more complicated and challenging task first. Maybe that was attempted, and we don't know if it was rejected. So if the procedural effort is piecemeal, the orchestration of it all has the trombone section way out of tune.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:44 am 
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Following the Big Ten expansion model, I guess it's not a stretch to think that if they could get say Virginia but not UNC, that based on academics/basketball/brand, Duke would be a fine addition. I mean, Rutgers and Maryland aren't exactly football powers themselves.

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