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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:47 am 
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If South Carolina and Arkansas were good acquisitions, then Missouri is a great one. The bargain of the modern era, really.

I think you have some people over in FSU who think they should be treated like Florida, Alabama, and LSU the moment they join, and that's the issue. They think they are above ribbing and critique, so they don't like the kind of flack I'm sure schools like UF, UGA, and the 'Bama schools lob on them. But, the SEC is right to do this to Florida State...FSU's legacy is that of one coach's span, and came to prominence by besting programs like Memphis when Tennessee was the one that mattered, Southern Miss instead of Ole Miss, Arkansas State rather than Arkansas, and Tulane. And BEFORE UF came to be a consistent national contender.

I'm not a fan of FSU, but I would respect them all the more if they'd drop the act and just do what it takes to join the SEC. This bit about hating the ACC and making public statements about exploring options just to stir the pot is so beneath ANY institution of worth.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:45 am 
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UNC & UVA in the B1G; VPI & NCSU in the SEC; FSU & Clemson in the B12.

It won't come down this way. And, it's not about saving the ACC. Check back at these posts in 3 to 5 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:11 am 
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sec -

I think you are SOOO right. The way these pieces move around (or not move around) has more to do with timing and weird inter-personal politics than any sort of logic.
So what looks logical from on high, rarely gets implemented, since there are a lot of different things going on independently at any given time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:32 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
UNC & UVA in the B1G; VPI & NCSU in the SEC; FSU & Clemson in the B12.

It won't come down this way. And, it's not about saving the ACC. Check back at these posts in 3 to 5 years.

Never does, we've already seen GT/UVA as a B1G possibility, and I've heard from non-A&M SEC fans that Texas/OU are the prizes that the SEC really wants, and who know BYU/Boise may pay the Big 12 to take them as fb onlys or the PAC12 may shock the world and get 60% of the Big 12 to break the GOR by taking UT/TT/OU/OSU/KU/KSU.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:23 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
UNC & UVA in the B1G; VPI & NCSU in the SEC; FSU & Clemson in the B12.

It won't come down this way. And, it's not about saving the ACC. Check back at these posts in 3 to 5 years.


Don't be surprised if the SEC gets UNC and Duke. If I'm Slive, I would try my hardest to get UNC, Duke, UVa and FSU now then wait until 2025 for Texas and Oklahoma.

Getting UNC, Duke and UVa would give the SEC 3 more AAU schools. Adding UNC and Duke to Kentucky would give the SEC 3 of the top 5 basketball brands. Adding FSU protects the state of Florida's sacred recruiting grounds from other conferences who would love more exposure in the state.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:35 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
If South Carolina and Arkansas were good acquisitions, then Missouri is a great one. The bargain of the modern era, really.

I think you have some people over in FSU who think they should be treated like Florida, Alabama, and LSU the moment they join, and that's the issue. They think they are above ribbing and critique, so they don't like the kind of flack I'm sure schools like UF, UGA, and the 'Bama schools lob on them. But, the SEC is right to do this to Florida State...FSU's legacy is that of one coach's span, and came to prominence by besting programs like Memphis when Tennessee was the one that mattered, Southern Miss instead of Ole Miss, Arkansas State rather than Arkansas, and Tulane. And BEFORE UF came to be a consistent national contender.

I'm not a fan of FSU, but I would respect them all the more if they'd drop the act and just do what it takes to join the SEC. This bit about hating the ACC and making public statements about exploring options just to stir the pot is so beneath ANY institution of worth.


You mean like leading an invasion force to eliminate Florida as a university...since one of the most talked about topic in this thread was how the SEC did not want to add schools from existing membership states as to not upset any existing members?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:28 am 
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Quinn wrote:
You mean like leading an invasion force to eliminate Florida as a university...since one of the most talked about topic in this thread was how the SEC did not want to add schools from existing membership states as to not upset any existing members?


I've never taken that stance as one with absolute enforcement. I mean, really, if Texas came knocking on the door, would they reject the Longhorns because of the Aggies? I think that line is one held by FSU's detractors, but not the conference in its entirety. However, yeah, I think it's FSU's challenge...they need to stop acting like they are of the same level as Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Alabama, or Ohio State. They aren't. Heck, they aren't even Miami, a school that's also gotten some play over the years.

I think it's a line the large, flagship southern schools use to preclude schools like Memphis, Louisville, Arkansas State, UAB, and others from even applying.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:24 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Quinn wrote:
You mean like leading an invasion force to eliminate Florida as a university...since one of the most talked about topic in this thread was how the SEC did not want to add schools from existing membership states as to not upset any existing members?


I've never taken that stance as one with absolute enforcement. I mean, really, if Texas came knocking on the door, would they reject the Longhorns because of the Aggies? I think that line is one held by FSU's detractors, but not the conference in its entirety. However, yeah, I think it's FSU's challenge...they need to stop acting like they are of the same level as Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Alabama, or Ohio State. They aren't. Heck, they aren't even Miami, a school that's also gotten some play over the years.

I think it's a line the large, flagship southern schools use to preclude schools like Memphis, Louisville, Arkansas State, UAB, and others from even applying.


Unlike South Carolina with Clemson, the University of Florida DOES NOT object to FSU being a member of the SEC. Mike Slive is the one that does not like the idea. Slive does not believe it makes good business, it's nothing personal.

I on the other hand believes that it is in the SEC best interest to add FSU. Adding FSU would protect the state of Florida's recruiting base for the SEC. The SEC dominate the Florida recruits.

I believe that the B1G is very interested in FSU despite not being an AAU member. A few things to consider about the B1G and FSU, FSU is a national brand. FSU is a Top 100 research university. The state of Florida has more cable subscribers than the state of Maryland and New Jersey combined. B1G schools would get more exposure with Florida recruits by having a member in the state. Frank the Tank has the best article I've seen on why the B1G should add FSU.

http://frankthetank.wordpress.com/2012/ ... e-big-ten/

This is why the SEC should add FSU, to keep the B1G out.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:43 am 
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Observing Forbes Magazine published data most recently, 7 of the top ten MOST VALUABLE PROGRAMS in Football are in the SEC. By the way Cutter, Arkansas (10th) & So. Carolina (17th) are both in the top 20, Mizzou & even A&M, are not as of last year. Texas, Michigan, & Notre Dame are 1, 2, 3.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/ ... ble-teams/

The B1G12 has Texas (1) and Oklahoma (12). No ACC teams are in the top 20. The B1G has 6. The PAC12 has 3, none in the top ten. SEC total 8.

Financial data is from the 2011-12 fiscal year, from each school's report to the U. S. Dept. of Education. Forbes used a weighted scoring system to measure the value created in 4 areas: fb profit contributed to academic programming including fb scholarships; value to its athletic department & profits that supports other athletics initiatives; value to the conference (distribution of bowl game revenues; and value to the surrounding community (estimated spending by visitors on days of home games).

Texas has a yearly worth of 133 million; OU 80 million. Per the SEC ever pursuing further expansion, Texas & OU should be at the top of the list if the opportunity would show itself. That's not saying Texas and the SEC shall bridge certain past differences; and Texas is the top financial kingpin as a B12 member. But if Texas &/or OU did switch conferences, it would make sense for them to connect with their closest financial moneymakers, the SEC. It could be argued (LHN aside), Texas and OU could be even more profitable in the SEC.

I am not dismissing the SEC would take a strong look at the ACC (UNC, UVA, FSU, etc.) if further expansion gets in high gear. Politics, financial initiatives, geography, and timing shape so much of this. And, as SEC past practice, new additions are done from targeted schools that leave their old conference first, and clarified departure times and financial obligations, before a formal invitation is extended. That is a procedural point that does impact choices.

Most Valuable Programs
1. TX, 2. Mich., 3. ND, 4. LSU, 5. UGA, 6. 'Bama, 7. UF, 8. Auburn, 9. Tenn., 10. Arkansas, 11. Nebraska, 12. Okla., 13. Penn St., 14. Wisconsin, 15. Oregon, 16. So. Cal., 17. So. Car., 18. Wash., 19. Mich. St., 20. Ohio St. (Forbes).

One can ask how could a school such as Arkansas show more value than, say, Ohio State? Well, Arkansas shows a 40 million profit to OSU's 24 million. Being in the SEC certainly elevates all their schools. Texas & OU carry the B12 and they would want to keep that tandem.

If we're talking super-conferences and balance, well......

While this data is not the only measure of worth for TV and related assets, it is an indicator, as to fb specifically. And conference shifts do impact a school's value.

If other sports were factored in such as basketball and baseball, certainly such rankings would have a few shifts, here and there. However, fb is driving most of the expansions/re-alignments, and fb is cited as the prime driver for showing profits.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:58 pm 
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247's owner (and Longhorn fan) Bobby Burton really REALLY wants UT/OU to join the SEC, and even if a good portion of his own message board disagrees with him. He claims that Texas AD/Pres Dodds/Powers both didn't like the PAC16 due to the 2 hr time zone travel West and the effect it would have on the student athletes/fans and UT's exposure but that it was the only way to keep enough of our rivals in tow at the time; and that a few BIG donors also want to make the move.

Burton thinks A&M's success in the SEC plus long time rival Arky, and should be rival LSU may get Texas out of being tied to Tech (the state would rather re-tie us to A&M) and if we leave OU would have to come with or end up in the PAC by themselves. UT/OU in a 8 or 10 team West division would like good too...

Texas, A&M, OU, Arky, Mizzou, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St 3/3/2
Kentucky, Vandy, Tenn, Bama, Aub, UGA, UF, SC 3/3/2

Texas, A&M, OU, Arky, Mizzou, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Bama, Aub 4/4/2
Kentucky, Vandy, Tenn, UGA, FSU, UF, Clem, SC, NCSU, VPI 3/4/3


But UT is not a "Southern" school, yes they are in the South but they really do have more in common with the Big Ten/PAC12 schools than the SEC with a few exceptions for UGA/Vandy.

If it comes down to it and Texas changes confereces, I think the admin wants UT/OU/KU in the Big Ten first and foremost but the SEC is probably option #2 even with the PAC. But until the GOR expires or is broke by 60% of the current Big 12 schools Texas isn't going anywhere. Only the PAC would be will to take 6 Big 12 schools UT/TT/OU/OSU/KU/KSU but I could see the SEC taking 6 possibly swap out 1 w/ WVU but that seems unlikely due to the how much easier it would be to take 2-4 as needed from the ACC (FSU/Miami/Clemson/GT/UNC/NCSU/Duke/UVA/VPI/Lville/Pitt).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:00 am 
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Isn't the problem the issue of Texas and Oklahoma leaving Tech and State behind?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:17 am 
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Texas will choose the SEC over the B1G and PAC because (just my opinion) I believe that Texas A&M-SEC marriage will resut in the Aggies becoming a national power over the next decade and the Longhorns will join to get back on top. Oklahoma will follow Texas even though I'd prefer West Virginia, of course after the Big 12 GOR expires.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:54 am 
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Texas A&M came into the SEC with a bang for the first season: a proven HC & staff, Heisman winning freshman QB, beating 'Bama, etc. The offensive coordinator, Kliff Kingsbury, former star Texas Tech QB and now Tech's new head coach, will be making new greater marks in college fb. He's young for a HC, but may do much impressive work to come. TTU's B12 opponents will be finding a very competitive and talented coaching foe.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:40 pm 
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westwolf wrote:
Isn't the problem the issue of Texas and Oklahoma leaving Tech and State behind?

Jump back a few years and I said the same thing about A&M to the SEC w/o Texas. Texas and A&M alums in the State House can split UT from Tech (especially when you factor in UH/SMU voting with them since they'd end in the B12). It will be unpopular but so was A&M to SEC. Oklahoma/OSU are tied through more unofficial connections but if Texas leaves I can't see them railroading Oklahoma's future for the sake of OSU. The PAC didn't want them, the B1G won't take OSU, and the states 3 million population isnt enough to get OSU's non-elite program into the SEC by themselves.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:28 pm 
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The difference is that A&M was not leaving Texas in a crumbling conference.


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