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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:38 am 
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Dennis wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
NorwichCat11 wrote:
OK, the BE adds Tulsa to replace Boise St., but who will be the add to replace San Diego St.? Rice? Any thoughts or ideas?


Probably no one. If the BE can keep Navy then Tulsa gives them 12 for football. Granted Navy has plenty of time to change their minds. UMass, which in my opinion is a bad add because they are so unproven, might get the nod if the Midshipmen bail.


Some thoughts:
1) There has been no indication that Navy intends to bail. I feel far more confident that they will be in the Big East in 2015 than some of the other schools. Navy operates with different objectives. They have seemed deliberate, decisive, patient, and dependable - in other words, entirely honorable - and I would expect nothing less.
2) I think it is the Big East that has "plenty of time" to act. There is no reason to add the 12th football school before 2015, so they don't need to make their decision for at least another year.
3) I agree that UMass would be a "bad add" at this time because their football program is unproven at the FBS level. They need time to achieve some FBS success, though everything else about UMass would make them a great addition to the Big East.
4) Adding Tulsa would be an even bigger mistake. Although Tulsa is very good across the board in academics and athletics, they have a tiny enrollment (about 4,000), which means a tiny alumni/fan base, in a modest-sized market. They have little media value, and little upside potential. Tulsa should be commended for maximizing their opportunity, but unless they can magically become like Notre Dame in the very near future, they are all they will ever be.
5) Big East expansion is being done with an eye on media value - just look at the markets they are in. We also know that football drives media value. So any Big East additions should have large media markets and good football.
6) Northern Illinois is by far the best available school for the Big East to add. Clearly, their football program is as good as any in the future Big East. Also, they have a large enrollment (about 25,000) and a large alumni base in a huge market (about 185,000 alumni in the Chicago area). I realize that Tulsa has the support of their former C-USA conference mates, and I also realize that the basketball schools might object because of NIU's crappy basketball program; however, I feel confident that if Aresco can show the existing Big East schools the difference in the value of the media contracts with NIU vs. Tulsa, then NIU will be the choice. NIU has enormous upside potential (and the basketball program can be fixed).

1. Navy's AD has said multiple times that they need to re-evaluate the move that this was not the same conference they agreed to join originally and has also said that other things about entry/exit fees and timelines (madatory waiting period) may need to be adjusted) as well as Navy total fb only percentage since the bball contract is way less valuable now that may need to be increased.
2. I think most of the Big East outside of Cincy/UConn disagree, there is strength in numbers and with UConn/Cincy begging for ACC invites I know that Memphis/Tulane/SMU/Houston would like a solid base to build around or else you might see some like Houston bolt for the MWC.
3. UMass is green but still with UConn looking around they are the best New England replacement and the quickest way to coach them up is to get them in the mix of BE fb, possibly as a fb only then give them the full membership if UConn bolts.
4. 5. & 6. NIU is a good option but like you said Tulsa has history with the CUSA schools, good all around programs, and their media market isn't trash they'd fit right in with Memphis and the TX/LA schools. While Chicago and a few good years of NIU fb ('02-'05 & '10-'12) are totally in the postives catagory they haven't been a powerhouse by any means and Chicago is so split between ND/Big Ten schools that NIU penetration to the non-alum is weak, meanwhile Tulsa only has OU/OkSU and possibly Arky to draw from and Golden Canes have received a lot of community support over the years so while their alumni base is smaller their community impact is probably larger.

Despite my note above I do agree with you that NIU would be a great addition to the Big East but I also think that they are so isolated in the heart of the MidWest that joining is all sports many give these mostly Southern or Eastern schools (other than Cincy who is looking for a way out) lots a pause whenever they are brought up.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am 
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Hartford Courant article with comments from BE Commish regarding BE realignment situation at http://www.courant.com/sports/college/h ... 9236.story


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Mike Aresco and the superintendent of the US Naval Academy need to have a heart to heart and discuss the following things:

A) Which schools need to be in the Big East in order to for Navy to feel like the conference is a suitable home for them?

B ) How much money does Navy need to make in order to call the BE home?

C) What's going on with Army?

D) If Navy no longer wants to be a full member of the BE would they at least be open to a scheduling arrangement (4-6 games a year) since playing Navy would help the BE tv contract?

E) Establish a date at which Navy has to declare for certain whether or not they are coming.

I feel like the questions surrounding Navy are holding up plans for the Big East's future especially in regards to how many more schools the BE needs to add and geographically where the BE would prefer to expand. If terms can be clarified with Navy it would help expedite this whole process.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:04 pm 
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I think Navy is IN (for FB only) starting in fall 2015, unless they serve notice stating otherwise.
I do not know if "pulling out" now would rigger an exit fee.
Navy may have certain conditions (about make-up of conference) which would permit them to withdraw without an exit fee.

I get the distinct impression that Army still has a bad taste in their mouth from the beatings they took from these same teams, while in CUSA prior to 2004.
So the BE money would be good for Army, but their AD makes it sound like he feels they can not compete.
To which I say: This isn't the SEC ! If you can't compete vs. these guys, maybe Army doesn't belong in FBS.

IDEALLY, I think Aresco would prefere 12 All-Sports schools, but d*p-s**t Marinatto went an invited Navy for Football only, and how exactly do you "un-do" an invitation ?
I do think Aresco will have a heart-to-heart with Navy and determine if they want to go ahead with it, or stay independent.
If Navy decides to stay independent, I would expect they would be able to do so with no exit fee.

If Navy is IN, the Big East goes to 11/12 (just like the MWC), and invites Tulsa for All-Sports, and ECU's other sports. Both will accept.
If Navy is OUT, the Big East goes to 12/12 with Tulsa and ECU for all-sports, AND they invite another All-Sports member.
I believe this schools will be: a CUSA school, a MAC school from a fair-sized urban area (maybe SUNY-Buffalo), or UMass.
The decision will be based more on TV market DMA, than the current state of the school's athletics.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:08 pm 
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The biggest thing is that there keeping the name:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... -keep-name

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:37 pm 
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I read that statement as "they're not just going to GIVE it away !"

Honestly the name Big East has far more value to the Catholic BB schools.
Only 3 of the 12 members (after 2014) of the football league are currently or have ever played under the Big East banner.

So the name, the MSG tourney, the exit fees, the cash in the Big East treasury - will all become negotiating points.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:19 pm 
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USAToday article discussing BE expansion and tv situation at http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... er/1879973


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:41 am 
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Here we all are WAITING on the Big East AGAIN !!!!

Things may be stable right now in:
PAC
MWC
Big XII
SEC
B1G
ACC

But the Big East is dragging their feet figuring out the obvious.

TV rights to negotiate: BB for BE + C7 for next season, FB for next year, all-sports for 12 team league after C7 depart

Then: BE (FB group) invite Tulsa, invite ECU other sports, see if Navy is in or out, if out invite a #12 for all sports (UMass ?)

Then: CUSA re-stocks from Sun-Belt

Then: Sun-Belt restocks from FCS / NMSU

Then: C7 raids A-10 for 4 schools, grabs Creighton from MVC.

Then: A-10 raids AE / CAA of about 4 schools

Then: all sorts of trickle-down upheaval with AE / CAA / NEC / MAAC / SoCon / Big South / A-Sun

With any luck, this will settle down by June 30th.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:16 pm 
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CBSSports blog article discussing BE divorce negotiations at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... ment-funds


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:18 pm 
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tute79 wrote:
Here we all are WAITING on the Big East AGAIN !!!!

Things may be stable right now in:
PAC
MWC
Big XII
SEC
B1G
ACC

But the Big East is dragging their feet figuring out the obvious.

TV rights to negotiate: BB for BE + C7 for next season, FB for next year, all-sports for 12 team league after C7 depart

Then: BE (FB group) invite Tulsa, invite ECU other sports, see if Navy is in or out, if out invite a #12 for all sports (UMass ?)

Then: CUSA re-stocks from Sun-Belt

Then: Sun-Belt restocks from FCS / NMSU

Then: C7 raids A-10 for 4 schools, grabs Creighton from MVC.

Then: A-10 raids AE / CAA of about 4 schools

Then: all sorts of trickle-down upheaval with AE / CAA / NEC / MAAC / SoCon / Big South / A-Sun

With any luck, this will settle down by June 30th.

C7 going to 12 will be the biggest domino that will effect the A10, MVC, CAA, SoCon? Horizon?, AEC? then NEC?, Big South?, ASun?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:15 am 
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BE MB thread discussing ECU/BE allsports situation at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=616546


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Re: the C-7 questionaire, why would MSG be interested in a tournament (nBE) featuring the likes of Tulane, Houston and ECU?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:52 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
BE MB thread discussing ECU/BE allsports situation at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=616546

"With the C7 departing and Boise / SDSU backing out as football onlies, it makes no sense for it not to happen now."

Unless they want 10 all sports members and 2 fb onlys (ECU/Navy) 11 just isn't as clean (I know the Big Ten did it, but that was for Penn St, and the MWC is doing it but that was to take back BSU/SDSU and to help out long time rival Hawaii's fb)

East Carolina also doesn't really have much nonfb success 0 NCAA championships, 2 NAIA titles (57' men's swimming, '61 baseball), men's ball 2 NAIA & 2 NCAA tourney appearances (lost all four in 1st round) and in 2010 also lost first round of the CIT, women's bball made the NCAA tourney twice (and lost both time in the 1st round), baseball has made the NCAA tourney 25 time but has only gone to 1 super regional (and lost), softball has made the tourney twice but never won a regional, and it sounds like their golf and track are okay (a few all Americans, Olympians, and NCAA individual appearance) but nothing that special.

Couple all that with a small media market and I could see them not getting an invite and letting the current all sports members play round robin in bball, they have 8 for baseball/softball which is enough to sponsor the sports, and plenty for all the normal sports (they may even still be able to sponsor women's rowing) the only benefit to the Big East would be in swimming where they may be a member or two shy of being able two comfortably sponsoring the sport.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:12 am 
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I get your point, about 10/2 being cleaner and easier to schedule than 11/1.

However, I think initially ECU was denied only because there was a desire (maybe largely by the C7) to limit all-sports size of the confernece to 16.
Almost immediately after the C7 announed their departure, I believe Aresco issued some public comments to the effect that ECU would be invited for all-sports.
Which seemed to indicate that once the departure date of the C7 was established, that would establish a date for ECU's other sports to come in.

I think the BE is moving toward negotiating an early departure for ND, C7, Rutgers, Louisville of July 1, 2014, along with negotiating a reduced exit fee based on that date.
Aresco is supposedly negotiating TV contracts for the last year 2013-4, and then a new contract for 12-team all-sports league starting July 1, 2014.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:04 am 
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tute79 wrote:
I get your point, about 10/2 being cleaner and easier to schedule than 11/1.

However, I think initially ECU was denied only because there was a desire (maybe largely by the C7) to limit all-sports size of the confernece to 16.
Almost immediately after the C7 announed their departure, I believe Aresco issued some public comments to the effect that ECU would be invited for all-sports.
Which seemed to indicate that once the departure date of the C7 was established, that would establish a date for ECU's other sports to come in.

I think the BE is moving toward negotiating an early departure for ND, C7, Rutgers, Louisville of July 1, 2014, along with negotiating a reduced exit fee based on that date.
Aresco is supposedly negotiating TV contracts for the last year 2013-4, and then a new contract for 12-team all-sports league starting July 1, 2014.


Should ECU (East Carolina) join for all-sports and not only for football, then the Big East would plan in the future for a CCG (conference championship game) for football.

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