Summit League Expansion

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7501

Kansas City Star article discussing UMKC move to the WAC and speculation regarding other possible Summit League realignment at http://www.kansascitystar.com/2013/02/0 ... letic.html

dgreco · **Joined:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:57 pm **Posts:** 78

why would SIU-E leave the OVC? Could the OVC be trying to purge nonfootball members? I know they just added Belmont, but that is a solid basketball add. Also, does Morehead St. have any plans to add scholarships?

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1764

I'm thinking that should NOT have said SIU-E, but rather Western Illinois.

What MAY be happening is that the Summit is about to be devoured.

Some eastern BB schools (one or more of Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW) to the Horizon League.
Some FB schools (one or more of NDSU, SDSU, USD, Western Illinois) to the MVC.

Remaining schools are scrambling: UMKC went to WAC, Denver just left WAC for the Summit (will they return / stay put in WAC), what of Nebraska-Omaha ?
Maybe the MVC does not want Western Illinois, and they wind up scrambling too.

If this is all Summit-related, can't see how an OVC team like SIU-E would be affected. I think that was an error / sloppy journalism.

freaked4collegefb · **Joined:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:37 pm **Posts:** 7501

Article out of Omaha with comments from UNO AD regarding UMKC move and Summit League realignment situation.Article mentions "possible" Summit League expansion targets "like"North Dakota and Northern Colorado.Link at http://www.omaha.com/article/20130208/M ... 89844/1707

wbyeager · **Posted:** Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:24 pm

If the Summit loses everyone east of the Mississippi River, could it pull off the following?

South Dakota
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
North Dakota (from Big Sky)
Montana (from Big Sky)
Montana State (from Big Sky)
Denver
Omaha

The first six establish the Summit as an FCS conference, Denver is currently the seventh Division I member, and Omaha will make eight once their transition is complete.

The Big Sky is left with the following;

Eastern Washington
Portland State
Idaho State
Idaho (FBS football)
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky could take Seattle if it wanted 10 members in basketball, or simply have Idaho not join. Northern Colorado could head to the Summit as well.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 473

wbyeager wrote:

If the Summit loses everyone east of the Mississippi River, could it pull off the following?

South Dakota
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
North Dakota (from Big Sky)
Montana (from Big Sky)
Montana State (from Big Sky)
Denver
Omaha

The first six establish the Summit as an FCS conference, Denver is currently the seventh Division I member, and Omaha will make eight once their transition is complete.

The Big Sky is left with the following;

Eastern Washington
Portland State
Idaho State
Idaho (FBS football)
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky could take Seattle if it wanted 10 members in basketball, or simply have Idaho not join. Northern Colorado could head to the Summit as well.

When I first joined this site one of my first posts more than two years ago was the need for a second western FCS conference. Fullerton seemed to be thinking the same thing last year and there was open speculation of a WAC-Big Sky alliance, however it failed pretty quickly.

However, that did seem to suggest that the Big Sky schools want the other three Dakota schools and maybe more, but they don't want to make it even harder to get an AQ, especially in olympic sports. The Summit losing a bunch of schools could give Fullerton a second chance at creating an ally conference, and it could look very similar to what you describe. I would put N Colorado in the Summit personally, but that's not a big issue.

Now, the Dakota schools moving will have nothing to do with their football home which is solid. Any move will be to stabilize their olympic sports. This is why ultimately I believe that the MVC will need to offer full invites to at least NDSU and SDSU, if not USD as well.

So I'd say the chances are slim, but I bet something like it would be considered if the Summit loses a lot of their eastern schools.

jlog3000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:33 am

SJSUFan2010 wrote:

wbyeager wrote:

If the Summit loses everyone east of the Mississippi River, could it pull off the following?

South Dakota
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
North Dakota (from Big Sky)
Montana (from Big Sky)
Montana State (from Big Sky)
Denver
Omaha

The first six establish the Summit as an FCS conference, Denver is currently the seventh Division I member, and Omaha will make eight once their transition is complete.

The Big Sky is left with the following;

Eastern Washington
Portland State
Idaho State
Idaho (FBS football)
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly (football only)
UC Davis (football only)

The Big Sky could take Seattle if it wanted 10 members in basketball, or simply have Idaho not join. Northern Colorado could head to the Summit as well.

When I first joined this site one of my first posts more than two years ago was the need for a second western FCS conference. Fullerton seemed to be thinking the same thing last year and there was open speculation of a WAC-Big Sky alliance, however it failed pretty quickly.

However, that did seem to suggest that the Big Sky schools want the other three Dakota schools and maybe more, but they don't want to make it even harder to get an AQ, especially in olympic sports. The Summit losing a bunch of schools could give Fullerton a second chance at creating an ally conference, and it could look very similar to what you describe. I would put N Colorado in the Summit personally, but that's not a big issue.

Now, the Dakota schools moving will have nothing to do with their football home which is solid. Any move will be to stabilize their olympic sports. This is why ultimately I believe that the MVC will need to offer full invites to at least NDSU and SDSU, if not USD as well.

So I'd say the chances are slim, but I bet something like it would be considered if the Summit loses a lot of their eastern schools.

Like the analysis from the previous 2 posts. But if it was to occur, then I believe that Omaha (Nebraska-Omaha) should bring back football. In my honest opinion, it was the WORST drop that the school has had to do, and all to join Division I from Division II. The Mavs could still have sponsored football while on the process to join the Summit League before this season started without dropping that sport, which it could have ended up competing in the MVFC. Nebraska-Omaha was one of the powerhouse-type rich history-style schools of that sport of Division II, back in the old NCC (North Central Conference) days.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1764

I really did not understand Trev Alberts killing off UNO's FB program either, I was hoping that UNO and North Dakota could become MVFC #11 & 12.

I think we're forrgetting Western Illinois. I don't see them being invited to MVC or Horizon, so I thik they'll be staying in the Summit. And they do play Football.

It's really hard to picture the Montana schools leaving the Big Sky for the Summit. Not happening....
(sort of an insane move, that we should not expect, even though UMKC just made a "downhill" move).
If the Big Sky were to add the 3 Dakota schools somehow, and then split into divisions, OK... Then I could see them placed with the 4 Dakota schools.

jlog3000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:10 pm

tute79 wrote:

I really did not understand Trev Alberts killing off UNO's FB program either, I was hoping that UNO and North Dakota could become MVFC #11 & 12.

I think we're forrgetting Western Illinois. I don't see them being invited to MVC or Horizon, so I thik they'll be staying in the Summit. And they do play Football.

It's really hard to picture the Montana schools leaving the Big Sky for the Summit. Not happening....
(sort of an insane move, that we should not expect, even though UMKC just made a "downhill" move).
If the Big Sky were to add the 3 Dakota schools somehow, and then split into divisions, OK... Then I could see them placed with the 4 Dakota schools.

Hopefully that UNO will re-instate football in the near future, but it would depend on the school staff and stuff.

If the MVFC keeps alive or merges into the MVC , I believe that Western Illinois would be a great candidate to join the MVC with the other schools who play MVFC football.

And it would be a wise decision for the Dakota schools to join the Big Sky for division play (even having Idaho as a non-football full member).

fighting muskie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:07 pm

Its really hard to tell what is going on with the MVC. If they lose Creighton I could see the football schools running roughshod over the bb schools and adding the Dakota schools. (This move would probably alienate Wichita St and they will probably team up with the private schools to try to stop it). It's also hard to tell what the Horizon is thinking too--they could easily sweep up the Summit's 3 easternmost basketball schools if they wanted but they just seem to be in a holding pattern for now.

TKthunder · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1526

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

tute79 wrote:

I really did not understand Trev Alberts killing off UNO's FB program either, I was hoping that UNO and North Dakota could become MVFC #11 & 12.

I think we're forrgetting Western Illinois. I don't see them being invited to MVC or Horizon, so I thik they'll be staying in the Summit. And they do play Football.

It's really hard to picture the Montana schools leaving the Big Sky for the Summit. Not happening....
(sort of an insane move, that we should not expect, even though UMKC just made a "downhill" move).
If the Big Sky were to add the 3 Dakota schools somehow, and then split into divisions, OK... Then I could see them placed with the 4 Dakota schools.

Hopefully that UNO will re-instate football in the near future, but it would depend on the school staff and stuff.

If the MVFC keeps alive or merges into the MVC , I believe that Western Illinois would be a great candidate to join the MVC with the other schools who play MVFC football.

And it would be a wise decision for the Dakota schools to join the Big Sky for division play (even having Idaho as a non-football full member).[/

I don't get yall. The Dakota schools are all on the Eastern border of their states next to Minnesota/Iowa, not the Western border of even the center of the states.

Theirs a reason USD turned down the Big Sky invite for the Summit/MVFC. Travel is easier to Midwest than it is to the MtnWest. If anything happens after the raids, I could see the 4 Dakota school getting together and starting a 10 member football-centric conference with the members of MVFC (sans YSU) and then seeing if any of the non-TN members of the OVC are interested (EIU/EKU/SEMSU/Murry St)and if not they could easily take an upgrade or two if need be (plenty of D2 options).

This would leave an odd mix of nonfb schools like Creighton, Drake, Witchita St, Neb-Omaha, Bradley, IUPUI, IUPUFW, and Oakland (if not raided) leftover to reform the MVC or Summit with Chicago St and UMKC, assuming that theirs enough off them or else they probably just join the WAC.

SJSUFan2010 · **Joined:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:52 pm **Posts:** 473

tute79 wrote:

I really did not understand Trev Alberts killing off UNO's FB program either, I was hoping that UNO and North Dakota could become MVFC #11 & 12.

I think we're forrgetting Western Illinois. I don't see them being invited to MVC or Horizon, so I thik they'll be staying in the Summit. And they do play Football.

It's really hard to picture the Montana schools leaving the Big Sky for the Summit. Not happening....
(sort of an insane move, that we should not expect, even though UMKC just made a "downhill" move).
If the Big Sky were to add the 3 Dakota schools somehow, and then split into divisions, OK... Then I could see them placed with the 4 Dakota schools.

The thing about just adding them is there is still only one AQ and it's far from certain an expanded Big Sky would get a second bid. By operating as two conferences with scheduling agreements they can get two AQs for 16-18 schools, rather than 1 for 12-14.

There are probably too many factors at play to make something like this work. The Summit football conference would be loaded compared to the remaining Big Sky conference. If you try to balance the football and basketball powerhouses you'll end up with two conferences with spread out footprints. It'll be way too hard to make everyone happy so ultimately the status quo in the Big Sky will probably maintain.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1764

Agree. A conference can get too big, and the Big Sky seems close to being "max'ed out".

Big Sky is stable, and North Dakota shoud be thankful for that, EVEN THOUGH deep down they would somehow like to be in a conference with the 3 other Dakota schools.

Summit could be gobbled up by Horizon, MVC / MVFC. That's sitting in a "holding pattern" waiting for the C7 raid on the A-10 to play out, and then cascade on down....

fighting muskie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:02 pm

I like the idea of a football-centric conference led by the 4 Dakota schools. I think if the MVC loses Creighton the football faction would definitely be willing to listen to the Dakota schools.

North Dakota St
North Dakota
South Dakota St
South Dakota
Northern Iowa
Missouri St
Western Illinois
Illinois St
Southern Illinois
Indiana St

It makes for a great 10 team conference with relatively easy travel. You could even throw in non-fb members Wichita St and Denver and have divisional play in bb and Olympic sports to minimize travel costs. The remnants of the MVC could then go after the Horizon and then what's left of the Horizon would have to take in the Summit Orphans.

jlog3000 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:13 pm

fighting muskie wrote:

I like the idea of a football-centric conference led by the 4 Dakota schools. I think if the MVC loses Creighton the football faction would definitely be willing to listen to the Dakota schools.

North Dakota St
North Dakota
South Dakota St
South Dakota
Northern Iowa
Missouri St
Western Illinois
Illinois St
Southern Illinois
Indiana St

It makes for a great 10 team conference with relatively easy travel. You could even throw in non-fb members Wichita St and Denver and have divisional play in bb and Olympic sports to minimize travel costs. The remnants of the MVC could then go after the Horizon and then what's left of the Horizon would have to take in the Summit Orphans.

Like your idea on this one Muskie. But I had something similar about this, which is related with the Summit (the fb-playing schools to the MVC and the non-fb schools to the Horizon), and I post it on a different sub-forum or topic.

Summit League Expansion

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