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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:42 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
The nBE basically tried this, w/ the best school and the best market in the MWC, plus later offered UNLV, Fresno after AFA said no. It didn't work. We are red headed step children, nBE just found out they had red hair too. The money aint there for the cost of all sports travel. Regional works better for both nBE and MWC.


I have to disagree. What caused this disaster in the Big East was the politics and disdain between certain blocs of schools. That certain institutions blatantly sat in the way of others, it distorts what really could have been. So now, still with certain schools who have no scruples sticking it to others, they still overlook some programs with no regard or understanding to their own financial detriment.

I'd buy the market argument if the Big East took a risk on Georgia State, Charlotte, UMass, NIU, and Buffalo. They are nowhere to be found in this speculation.

I'd buy the "best team" argument if they took ECU, USM, one of the Ohio MAC'ers (UMOH, OU, BGSU, Toledo, etc.), or Central Michigan. ECU's partially in, but only after Louisville took off.

The Mountain West can't be as picky, and take the regionalism issue very seriously. I suspect the conference would LOVE to have Hawaii as a full-member...they just can't afford it. But, politics obviously exist there, too. Schools like UTEP, Fresno, and the aforementioned Hawaii...all left behind for TCU and UNLV those years back. UTEP is no closer to Mountain West membership than it was when the conference tapped Utah State and SJSU...were BOTH those schools better options than UTEP?

I think we are on totally new ground. We have the values of all these mid-major conferences, all swelling with a hodge-podge of different institutions (CUSA slays me with Rice in there with UTSA), and nobody is exactly grinning like idiots and loving their surroundings. And with the "major players" (BYU, Navy, and Army) still relatively cool to certain conferences yet still "monitoring the landscape," the work is being done for them.

And there's pockets of value in all three of them (MWC, Big East, CUSA) but no concentration or geographic schematic.

I'll lay off the doomsday talk of another Mountain West-like conference creation once BYU is "settled," I guess. Knowing how they work and who they are as a player, they are too small to be out there alone, but too big for these other conferences. I think it's going to take a LOT of work to reincorporate their television deal and replay rights into any of the current conferences, and that's why one might just have to start from scratch.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:38 am 
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AP article(previously posted in another thread)reporting that BE has submitted NBC proposal to ESPN for possible matching offer at http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268753/conten ... d=eYDsSD1h


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:46 pm 
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It's the argument of CLOSE NIT RIVALRIES vs. the GEOGRAPHIC SPREAD..........or more now for some, wherever they can be found.

The history of CUSA suggests being stretched from here to yonder is no recipe for stability. And bonding is only as good as waiting for the better offer and escape.

The nBE needs to let go of pursing any more grandiose schemes, and build within and immediately around what they mave have. Not pretty, but get something that may work first.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:01 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
The nBE needs to let go of pursing any more grandiose schemes, and build within and immediately around what they mave have. Not pretty, but get something that may work first.


I agree, but when has that ever been the Big East?

This conference should never have gone forward without Penn State, Army, and Navy. It was a foundational mistake that will cost it its existence, because the same schools who have pegged so hard to get the rub of membership 20+ years ago are pretty much still there outside of the conference today, and geography is NOT the reason for that!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:21 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
The nBE basically tried this, w/ the best school and the best market in the MWC, plus later offered UNLV, Fresno after AFA said no. It didn't work. We are red headed step children, nBE just found out they had red hair too. The money aint there for the cost of all sports travel. Regional works better for both nBE and MWC.


I have to disagree. What caused this disaster in the Big East was the politics and disdain between certain blocs of schools. That certain institutions blatantly sat in the way of others, it distorts what really could have been. So now, still with certain schools who have no scruples sticking it to others, they still overlook some programs with no regard or understanding to their own financial detriment.

I'd buy the market argument if the Big East took a risk on Georgia State, Charlotte, UMass, NIU, and Buffalo. They are nowhere to be found in this speculation.

I'd buy the "best team" argument if they took ECU, USM, one of the Ohio MAC'ers (UMOH, OU, BGSU, Toledo, etc.), or Central Michigan. ECU's partially in, but only after Louisville took off.

The Mountain West can't be as picky, and take the regionalism issue very seriously. I suspect the conference would LOVE to have Hawaii as a full-member...they just can't afford it. But, politics obviously exist there, too. Schools like UTEP, Fresno, and the aforementioned Hawaii...all left behind for TCU and UNLV those years back. UTEP is no closer to Mountain West membership than it was when the conference tapped Utah State and SJSU...were BOTH those schools better options than UTEP?

I think we are on totally new ground. We have the values of all these mid-major conferences, all swelling with a hodge-podge of different institutions (CUSA slays me with Rice in there with UTSA), and nobody is exactly grinning like idiots and loving their surroundings. And with the "major players" (BYU, Navy, and Army) still relatively cool to certain conferences yet still "monitoring the landscape," the work is being done for them.

And there's pockets of value in all three of them (MWC, Big East, CUSA) but no concentration or geographic schematic.

I'll lay off the doomsday talk of another Mountain West-like conference creation once BYU is "settled," I guess. Knowing how they work and who they are as a player, they are too small to be out there alone, but too big for these other conferences. I think it's going to take a LOT of work to reincorporate their television deal and replay rights into any of the current conferences, and that's why one might just have to start from scratch.

the 2 schools that wanted Fresno left out are gone, BYU, Utah. UTEP didn't want to move back to the MWC until the last round of defections. So nothing they can do about it now except wait. SJSU, Utah St., were better than UTEP the last couple years, Utah St. is better at basketball. All 3 of us were left behind for just UNLV, TCU didn't join until a few years later.

I'm telling you the logistics are way more than they can handle and we won't see an all across america conf. made up of the tallest midgets.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:46 pm 
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So FYI, I looked up CUSA TV deal in freak's TV$ thread and its worth about 14 million a year for 14 schools which would be about 1 million per school (not counting any step up payouts to new members).

The Big East is now getting about 23 million for their expected 12 members (I know Navy's not but it make the math easy) so that means anyone switching from CUSA to the nBE would get just under 2 million a year which nearly twice the TV money.

Plus this doesn't take into account that CUSA could be going to 16 as they will have all their new addition and still have Tulane and ECU next year, which would bump the total payout to less than 900K per team.

So why its not a huge increase, still an extra million a year for the athletic departments of a school like Tulsa makes this a no-brainer decision if they are invited.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:11 pm 
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But what would the MWC contract be worth if the conference had 2 (or 4) Texas schools? CBS (they are the ones with the MWC's tv rights right?) could make things interesting for the Big East if they got involved and started "encouraging" the MWC to shake things up.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:17 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
But what would the MWC contract be worth if the conference had 2 (or 4) Texas schools? CBS (they are the ones with the MWC's tv rights right?) could make things interesting for the Big East if they got involved and started "encouraging" the MWC to shake things up.

We don't really know what it's worth now, w/ a new deal plus the bonus stuff, I guess we'll have to wait and see at the end of the year. Hawaii made around 4 mill if I heard right, w/ their tier 2/3 games sold to their local network. I think Fresno made 1.2 or 1.4 w/ their other tier rights combined w/ 800k base from last year. It was on the MWC board a while back, no actual proof.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:25 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
louisvillecard01 wrote:
The nBE needs to let go of pursing any more grandiose schemes, and build within and immediately around what they mave have. Not pretty, but get something that may work first.


I agree, but when has that ever been the Big East?

This conference should never have gone forward without Penn State, Army, and Navy. It was a foundational mistake that will cost it its existence, because the same schools who have pegged so hard to get the rub of membership 20+ years ago are pretty much still there outside of the conference today, and geography is NOT the reason for that!


It was still a NE conception at the inception, and then, geography was treated as a factor for commonality--pre Miami initiatives. It's hard to predict the "what ifs" and say what would have been sustained for the long-term. Had PSU joined, there's no assurance it would have been permanent. The BE, when they adapted fb, was doomed due to its hybrid nature and the pettiness that ensued. C-7 is looking to go back to their orginal roots (not all being the same schools back then).

The nBE is essentially much of former CUSA-plus and roots to the NE are largely historical now. It's a conference of essentially replacements. Even UCONN upgrading fb for the BE was more later than early, and Temple (re-entering) for all-sports was never an origin.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:09 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
But what would the MWC contract be worth if the conference had 2 (or 4) Texas schools? CBS (they are the ones with the MWC's tv rights right?) could make things interesting for the Big East if they got involved and started "encouraging" the MWC to shake things up.


Yeah, this is where and why I think of this off-the-wall stuff. The issue here is inventory. Yes, the Big East has UConn, Cincy, and Memphis basketball, as well as Navy, Cincy, Houston, and USF football. The rest is not in demand, and Tulane, SMU, and Temple are worthless. The statistical majority of Big East football and basketball product is not desirable programming. In the MWC, UNLV and UNM basketball carries the burden, with football being in the hands of Boise, AFA, and SDSU, with the others offering far less interest (and while one of the "never left behind," Wyoming is non-existent).

The networks don't exactly have a lot to parse through with these conferences, and while I agree the geography is nuts...I think you can easily get $5-10M/per with the rest of these "tall midgets." BYU and at least two of the SA's put you on a very good track for that. And, yes, they aren't big-conference caliber, but they are among "the best of the rest," and that inventory without non-desirables can actually fetch a good amount.

Outside of this whole whimsical idea, I do have to wonder if UConn will stick it out for this contract, then work with the C7 to park (and increase) their basketball draw while sticking football in the MAC. I really don't see them staying with this core, and I don't think the C7 will leave them behind.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:19 pm 
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UCONN only needs to wait for the ACC to be raided by the SEC,B10 and B12,then Uconn and UC can join with whats left of the ACC.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:49 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
UCONN only needs to wait for the ACC to be raided by the SEC,B10 and B12,then Uconn and UC can join with whats left of the ACC.


Now that UConn has a potential value of $2m, does that make them a darling in the eyes of the ACC? Sounds like BC might have picked up some additional southern allies to keep them out, because UConn won't really add much.

Then again, I think BC's the most likely to leave next anyway...and maybe both sides would be content.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:30 am 
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ESPN blog article with comments from BE Commish regarding various issues at http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/ ... ike-aresco


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:39 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Sounds like BC might have picked up some additional southern allies to keep them out, because UConn won't really add much.

Then again, I think BC's the most likely to leave next anyway...and maybe both sides would be content.


Maybe BC could end up some day in the Big Ten which got suggested even before BC went to the ACC. Involving ND as part of the transition, usually is associated with the implication.

BC may not be so joined at the hip with ND though the rivalry, market, and religious identities have mutual value. When BC left the BE for the ACC, it showed BC was an independent thinker when it came to ND. Whether or not the Big Ten seeks to be the catalyst to absorb both for future expansion initiatives, it may have a higher probability than some of the more 'southern' scenarios suggested. Basically it would be saying, Big Ten expansion is based on one ultimate goal: take in ND for all-sports by absorbing several of ND's frequent rivals first. It seems like an awful lot of unfascinating (as opposed to baggage) additions for an unsure outcome.

I do believe it is the northern part of the ACC, rather than the southern part, most vulnerable to Big Ten first initiatives. The ACC made a couple of big mistakes with expansion: not taking WVU, and accepting ND w/o all fb. Pitt & Louisville, with the ACC, are good fits for the scheme. The ACC should have waited, maybe, in pursing the upper northeast corridor (Syracuse, BC). Whether such would have kept Maryland, hard to say with the monetary enticements. But, it could have impacted Big Ten thinking as to strategy and aggressiveness.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:00 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Sounds like BC might have picked up some additional southern allies to keep them out, because UConn won't really add much.

Then again, I think BC's the most likely to leave next anyway...and maybe both sides would be content.


Maybe BC could end up some day in the Big Ten which got suggested even before BC went to the ACC. Involving ND as part of the transition, usually is associated with the implication.

BC may not be so joined at the hip with ND though the rivalry, market, and religious identities have mutual value. When BC left the BE for the ACC, it showed BC was an independent thinker when it came to ND. Whether or not the Big Ten seeks to be the catalyst to absorb both for future expansion initiatives, it may have a higher probability than some of the more 'southern' scenarios suggested. Basically it would be saying, Big Ten expansion is based on one ultimate goal: take in ND for all-sports by absorbing several of ND's frequent rivals first. It seems like an awful lot of unfascinating (as opposed to baggage) additions for an unsure outcome.

I do believe it is the northern part of the ACC, rather than the southern part, most vulnerable to Big Ten first initiatives. The ACC made a couple of big mistakes with expansion: not taking WVU, and accepting ND w/o all fb. Pitt & Louisville, with the ACC, are good fits for the scheme. The ACC should have waited, maybe, in pursing the upper northeast corridor (Syracuse, BC). Whether such would have kept Maryland, hard to say with the monetary enticements. But, it could have impacted Big Ten thinking as to strategy and aggressiveness.


I think for BC to fit into a Big Ten master expansion plan it would have to be an enormous one. I think UVA, UNC, Duke (to placate UNC), and Notre Dame all come in before BC but BC and Syracuse could come in as members 19 and 20 if the Big Ten and SEC determined that massive conferences were the future of college athletics.


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