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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:42 am 
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tkalmus wrote:
Dennis wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Mark Blaudschun blog article discussing new BE FB name and ECU situation at http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=6023

While it certainly appears that ECU will be elevated to full member, I question whether that makes sense.

Historically, ECU has a worse basketball RPI than any team in the conference, including Tulane, UCF, and USF, current season not withstanding. Why would the basketball schools (UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Memphis) accept a school that will lower the conference's basketball RPI, when there is really no need to do so?

As a full member, ECU would get a full share of the conference's media revenue. While the difference may be only a few hundred thousand dollars per year, this conference cannot really afford to pay more than necessary. And why pay ECU to lower the conference's basketball RPI?

There are no all-sports conference members anywhere close to ECU, making significant olympic sport travel cost savings unlikely. ECU is a flight trip, not a bus trip. Stopping at ECU to get another game on a road trip would mean another flight (or two) for the traveling team, and they could just as easily stop at Memphis, Temple, or Cincinnati. In any case, cost of a flight often has more to do with the particular lane than with distance.

Ideal conference size may be 10 full members plus 2 football-only members. Why go to 11 + 1?


I've made this very same point before too, but the general consensus is that its "the right thing to do" so they'll do it...

If I was the commish or a schools AD/prez I'd think long and hard about this issue before adding them as full members. If Navy backs out then I tend to think that it would be a no brainer to invite them because they'll want 12 all sports members but if Navy joins up it makes a lot of sense to just stay at 10.

tkalmus wrote:
Unless they want 10 all sports members and 2 fb onlys (ECU/Navy) 11 just isn't as clean (I know the Big Ten did it, but that was for Penn St, and the MWC is doing it but that was to take back BSU/SDSU and to help out long time rival Hawaii's fb)

East Carolina also doesn't really have much nonfb success 0 NCAA championships, 2 NAIA titles (57' men's swimming, '61 baseball), men's ball 2 NAIA & 2 NCAA tourney appearances (lost all four in 1st round) and in 2010 also lost first round of the CIT, women's bball made the NCAA tourney twice (and lost both time in the 1st round), baseball has made the NCAA tourney 25 time but has only gone to 1 super regional (and lost), softball has made the tourney twice but never won a regional, and it sounds like their golf and track are okay (a few all Americans, Olympians, and NCAA individual appearance) but nothing that special.

Couple all that with a small media market and I could see them not getting an invite and letting the current all sports members play round robin in bball, they have 8 for baseball/softball which is enough to sponsor the sports, and plenty for all the normal sports (they may even still be able to sponsor women's rowing) the only benefit to the Big East would be in swimming where they may be a member or two shy of being able two comfortably sponsoring the sport.

It's stupid to tell a school no that was all sports in a conf w/....
Cincinnati
Louisville
USF
Tulane
Memphis
Houston

TCU
S.Miss
UAB
UCF(added in 05)
SMU(added in 05)
Tulsa(added in 05)


...for a conf w/
Cincinnati
USF(3 tourneys)
Tulane(3 tourneys, last 1996)
Memphis
Houston(2 tourneys in last 21 years or 1 in 20)
UCF(4 tourneys)
SMU(last tourney in 1993)
Tulsa
(last tourney 2003)
Temple
UConn
Navy(fb)
ECU(2 tourneys, last 1993)

In what world are UConn, Temple so mighty that they trump Louisville, TCU? I'd take that old CUSA over this A12 and ECU good enough for that but not this? ECU middle of the pack bball, SMU, Tulane not better, Houston either. They made it to 1 tourney in 20some years so that's 1 better than ECUs last in 93.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:27 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
It's stupid to tell a school no that was all sports in a conf w/....
Cincinnati
Louisville
USF
Tulane
Memphis
Houston

TCU
S.Miss
UAB
UCF(added in 05)
SMU(added in 05)
Tulsa(added in 05)


...for a conf w/
Cincinnati
USF(3 tourneys)
Tulane(3 tourneys, last 1996)
Memphis
Houston(2 tourneys in last 21 years or 1 in 20)
UCF(4 tourneys)
SMU(last tourney in 1993)
Tulsa
(last tourney 2003)
Temple
UConn
Navy(fb)
ECU(2 tourneys, last 1993)

In what world are UConn, Temple so mighty that they trump Louisville, TCU? I'd take that old CUSA over this A12 and ECU good enough for that but not this? ECU middle of the pack bball, SMU, Tulane not better, Houston either. They made it to 1 tourney in 20some years so that's 1 better than ECUs last in 93.

What sense does it make to play all sports with 11 when 10 is better. 10/12 vs 11/12 is cleaner, and allows the A12 to play round robin bball. And yes we have to hold ECU to a higher standard because they are in a smaller media market and their football program (their best asset) is already included in the conference so what else do they offer.

If they had held out it'd be a different story, but they gave in and now (while I still think they'll get in) they might have to join the SoCon in nonfb sports.

And are Temple/UConn better than Lville/TCU, obviously not but they are apparently better than SoMiss/UAB/Rice/Marshall/UTEP.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:57 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
It's stupid to tell a school no that was all sports in a conf w/....
Cincinnati
Louisville
USF
Tulane
Memphis
Houston

TCU
S.Miss
UAB
UCF(added in 05)
SMU(added in 05)
Tulsa(added in 05)


...for a conf w/
Cincinnati
USF(3 tourneys)
Tulane(3 tourneys, last 1996)
Memphis
Houston(2 tourneys in last 21 years or 1 in 20)
UCF(4 tourneys)
SMU(last tourney in 1993)
Tulsa
(last tourney 2003)
Temple
UConn
Navy(fb)
ECU(2 tourneys, last 1993)

In what world are UConn, Temple so mighty that they trump Louisville, TCU? I'd take that old CUSA over this A12 and ECU good enough for that but not this? ECU middle of the pack bball, SMU, Tulane not better, Houston either. They made it to 1 tourney in 20some years so that's 1 better than ECUs last in 93.

What sense does it make to play all sports with 11 when 10 is better. 10/12 vs 11/12 is cleaner, and allows the A12 to play round robin bball. And yes we have to hold ECU to a higher standard because they are in a smaller media market and their football program (their best asset) is already included in the conference so what else do they offer.

If they had held out it'd be a different story, but they gave in and now (while I still think they'll get in) they might have to join the SoCon in nonfb sports.

And are Temple/UConn better than Lville/TCU, obviously not but they are apparently better than SoMiss/UAB/Rice/Marshall/UTEP.

Says the conf called the A12 w/ 11 or 10 full members. At least the B12 had 12 to start, A12 starts fresh and fs it up. If I was the A12 I'd be more concerned w/ Navy bailing and it would make more sense to have 12 full members. If Navy is in for the long haul then add VCU as a full member for 12. MWC is going 12/11 seems fine to them.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Says the conf called the A12 w/ 11 or 10 full members. At least the B12 had 12 to start, A12 starts fresh and fs it up. If I was the A12 I'd be more concerned w/ Navy bailing and it would make more sense to have 12 full members. If Navy is in for the long haul then add VCU as a full member for 12. MWC is going 12/11 seems fine to them.

First, I don't think the name is set, I've seen multple articles claiming they have not decided on one yet so I think we're putting the cart before the horse on this one.

Second, I know I've said this before on here, and I know you know this but the MWC lost Boise St and SDSU and thought for awhile that they were losing Fresno, UNLV, Air Force, and possibly even New Mexico and Nevada. They added Utah St and SJSU out of fear and pity BEFORE finding out that they would lose nobody and get back BSU/SDSU. So yes, the MWC seems fine by not adding Hawaii's nonfb sports and doesn't appear to want a non fb school to offset but a bunch of thing happend to lead them to this point meanwhile the BEfbschools/A12/TBD are setting up new diggs and can do whatever is best for the 10 full members they will have and adding ECU's below average non fb sports may not benefit anyone other than ECU.

If Navy bails add them and another all sports fb member for a solid group of 12. If Navy stays don't add them and hold at 10 all sports members with 2 fb onlys.

That being said I still think it'll happen because the commish said it would and ECU (like you said above) has history with these schools but just because it happens doesn't mean its smart (see UMKC to WAC).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:01 pm 
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isn't ECU real good at baseball? meh bball like more than half the A12, one of the better fb schools, sounds like a perfect fit.

Putting the cart before the horse is kind of all our jobs here. We'd all be bored if we had to wait until everything went down before talking about it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
isn't ECU real good at baseball? meh bball like more than half the A12, one of the better fb schools, sounds like a perfect fit.

Putting the cart before the horse is kind of all our jobs here. We'd all be bored if we had to wait until everything went down before talking about it.

If you go back a page I quoted myself from over a month ago but to summarize, ECU made the playoffs a bunch of times but has only gone to 1 super regional (sweet16 in baseball) and lost, never made it into the CWS. While that sounds semi-impressive making the 64 team tournament is good but don't get fooled its not like making its into the NCAA basketball tourney because way more schools play D1 basketball than D1 baseball. Just remember Dallas Baptist (little bitty D2 school playing D1 baseball) made it to the CWS recently but ECU never has.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:10 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
way more schools play D1 basketball than D1 baseball

If my list is accurate there are 48 more.

DI basketball tournament takes 68 of 344* or 19.8%
DI baseball tournament takes 64 of 296*# or 21.6%

Significant? you be the judge

* excludes Presbyterian, Northern Kentucky and Omaha who are not yet officially DI
# includes Dallas Baptist, Le Moyne and NYIT--DII schools that play DI baseball


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:28 pm 
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gsohokiefan wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
way more schools play D1 basketball than D1 baseball

If my list is accurate there are 48 more.

DI basketball tournament takes 68 of 344* or 19.8%
DI baseball tournament takes 64 of 296*# or 21.6%

Significant? you be the judge

* excludes Presbyterian, Northern Kentucky and Omaha who are not yet officially DI
# includes Dallas Baptist, Le Moyne and NYIT--DII schools that play DI baseball

Not to split hairs but my bball number is over 350 (don't really care to look the exact number though) and Presby is official, though UNO (NOLA) was not (or at least I thought).

LeMoyne is not D1 in baseball (at least not anymore) they're D2.

And just off the top of my head I can list over 20 schools just West of the Mississippi that don't play baseball (SMU, UTEP, Tulsa, UMKC, Drake, Northern Iowa, Iowa St, USD, Colorado, CoSU, Denver, WYO, Mont, MontSt, Idaho, Boise, Idaho St, EastWA, Port St, SoUtah, Utah St, Weber St, NoAZ) so I assumed there were more especially in the North (Midwest and Northeast) but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Of those BTW its pathetic that SMU, Tulsa and UTEP don't have them. They have plenty of access to talent all around them and are in good climates for it.

And while I tend to give most of the mountain schools a pass, its pathetic that with all that PAC12 money that Colorado doesn't have a team while Northern Colorado does...same goes for Wisconsin in the Big Ten, Iowa St in the Big 12 and Syracuse in the ACC all of which are the only non participating members of those major conferences.

Back to my main point if we just use your numbers and round 300 baseball versus 350 basketball both with 64 spot (since we are talking historically and the it just expanded plus its easier math) its 1/7th less competition for those spots. Still ECU has been decent in baseball, but to call them good means CWS appearances not Super regional appearances or simply post season appearances. A majority of ECU's appearances padding the stats came from autobids in single bids conference. While yes that points to success, that success was also localized. I know ECU hosted a regional at least once so that is an example of a good season.

But even if ECU baseball is good, they are not good enough to make it to a CWS but good enough to possibly take post season opportunities away from the members of the BEfb/A12/TBD. Anyway I slice it I still would not add them if I was in charge (once again admitting that I think they'll still get added).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:48 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
gsohokiefan wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
way more schools play D1 basketball than D1 baseball

If my list is accurate there are 48 more.

DI basketball tournament takes 68 of 344* or 19.8%
DI baseball tournament takes 64 of 296*# or 21.6%

Significant? you be the judge

* excludes Presbyterian, Northern Kentucky and Omaha who are not yet officially DI
# includes Dallas Baptist, Le Moyne and NYIT--DII schools that play DI baseball

Not to split hairs but my bball number is over 350 (don't really care to look the exact number though) and Presby is official, though UNO (NOLA) was not (or at least I thought).

LeMoyne is not D1 in baseball (at least not anymore) they're D2.

And just off the top of my head I can list over 20 schools just West of the Mississippi that don't play baseball (SMU, UTEP, Tulsa, UMKC, Drake, Northern Iowa, Iowa St, USD, Colorado, CoSU, Denver, WYO, Mont, MontSt, Idaho, Boise, Idaho St, EastWA, Port St, SoUtah, Utah St, Weber St, NoAZ) so I assumed there were more especially in the North (Midwest and Northeast) but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Of those BTW its pathetic that SMU, Tulsa and UTEP don't have them. They have plenty of access to talent all around them and are in good climates for it.

And while I tend to give most of the mountain schools a pass, its pathetic that with all that PAC12 money that Colorado doesn't have a team while Northern Colorado does...same goes for Wisconsin in the Big Ten, Iowa St in the Big 12 and Syracuse in the ACC all of which are the only non participating members of those major conferences.

Back to my main point if we just use your numbers and round 300 baseball versus 350 basketball both with 64 spot (since we are talking historically and the it just expanded plus its easier math) its 1/7th less competition for those spots. Still ECU has been decent in baseball, but to call them good means CWS appearances not Super regional appearances or simply post season appearances. A majority of ECU's appearances padding the stats came from autobids in single bids conference. While yes that points to success, that success was also localized. I know ECU hosted a regional at least once so that is an example of a good season.

But even if ECU baseball is good, they are not good enough to make it to a CWS but good enough to possibly take post season opportunities away from the members of the BEfb/A12/TBD. Anyway I slice it I still would not add them if I was in charge (once again admitting that I think they'll still get added).

when all the newbies like GCU come in, it will be 349, not 350, that's splitting atoms :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:54 am 
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CBSSports blog article discussing BE FB branding and expansion situation at http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... a-new-name


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 8m
Tulsa will join old Big East & East Carolina will be added as full member in 2014, sources told @ESPN

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
when all the newbies like GCU come in, it will be 349, not 350, that's splitting atoms :lol:
Did you count UMass Lowell? that'd be 350...

Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 8m
Tulsa will join old Big East & East Carolina will be added as full member in 2014, sources told @ESPN

Link
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ng-sources

Least suprising news ever, I guess Navy is on board.

Now to see what CUSA does just take WKU or possibly jump to 16?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:26 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
when all the newbies like GCU come in, it will be 349, not 350, that's splitting atoms :lol:
Did you count UMass Lowell? that'd be 350...

Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN 8m
Tulsa will join old Big East & East Carolina will be added as full member in 2014, sources told @ESPN

Link
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ng-sources

Least suprising news ever, I guess Navy is on board.

Now to see what CUSA does just take WKU or possibly jump to 16?


Yes I did, we had 347 this year. add UM-Lowell and GCU, 349

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Yes I did, we had 347 this year. add UM-Lowell and GCU, 349

What about Abliene Christian and Incarnate Word? I know they weren't included in this year's totals.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:03 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Yes I did, we had 347 this year. add UM-Lowell and GCU, 349

What about Abliene Christian and Incarnate Word? I know they weren't included in this year's totals.

Yeah, just recounted all of them 351 next year. 309 in D-II counting the 3 UPR schools

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