CAA Realignment

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1654

I would think right now that the CAA member schools are in major scramble mode, figuring out what to do.

With regard to football, JMU may be gone, and Villanova (Big East), Richmond (A-10) and URI (A-10) seem to be fine with "affiliate" status, and they will go with the flow.

I think the CAA FB league is not sponsored by the CAA (since there are not 6 CAA members in CAA FB), although it is run autonomously out of the CAA office.
(much like MVC and MVFC arrangement).

So I don't think CAA has ability to use FB membership as a club to manipulate Stony Brook and Albany, if they are happy in AE.

If the CAA were to fragment, would the AE invite Towson and Delaware, which would allow them to take over the CAA FB league (having 6 member schools in house) ?
They could then invite CCSU and / or Bryant and be in position to offer FB mmebership....

After CAA tried to raid the SoCon (and took CoC), the SoCon has to regard the CAA as a threat to steal members.

If JMU departs, knocking CAA down to 8 (which includes CoC), I have to think SoCon would try to steal UNCW and CoC, driving CAA out of the South and eliminating the threat.
SoCon may not WANT those schools specifically (neither plays FB), but it may help the long-term viability of the SoCon conference.
SoCon can then add affilaite FB members from the A-Sun which has a few wannabe FCS schools (the A-Sun is in no position to sponsor FCS FB).

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1331

accseahawk wrote:

I see Delaware as the East Coast version of Montana, they have a ton of potential at the FBS level, but have no real motivation or incentive to do so. JMU used to be that way too, but then the VA core of the CAA collaspsed causing them to have to re-evaluate their situation. Things have not changed that much for Delaware. Yes the CAA lost is power basketball schools, but Delaware's priority was never basketball, it has always been FCS football. That is why they joined the CAA in the first place, so their sports could be placed under 1 umbrella. They are one of the few programs that make money off of FCS football. Combine that with the fact that they will be an even greater player in the new CAA, why would Delaware give all that up to join the MAC where they will be the southeastern outlier?? The new CAA will be created much to Delaware's liking, and even if there is a southern division, I see that being more appealing to Delaware than traveling to the midwest for every single sport as opposed to the occassional trip down south.

So with Delaware not going anywhere, Villanova will stay put as well, especially since the Temple game is not such a sure thing.

I'm on the fence about UDel. I could see them joining the MAC and trying their luck at FBS as their conference is falling down around them. Yes, they could be the only big time team in the CAAfb but I think that not a major factor.

But to summarize, you think Nova would rather stay in a crummy CAA solely for 1 game with UDel which they could play annually OOC?

That could be true but I think if history shows us anything its that rivalries don't matter.

If not for their bball, Villanova would be the perfect fit for the Patriot League. It seems to me that Nova bball is now secure in the Big East so top priority should be to secure Nova fb and other than the Ivy League and the SWAC there's really not a more stable league than the Patriot.

Add W&M (all sports), Nova and Richmond (fb onlys), and a 12th non-fb addition (like Fordham or Fairfield) and that league is pretty solid in both athletics and academics every which way.

Some combo of CoC, UNCW, UDel, Towson, Hofstra, Northeastern and their new additions pales in comparison IMO.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:02 pm

tkalmus wrote:

accseahawk wrote:

I see Delaware as the East Coast version of Montana, they have a ton of potential at the FBS level, but have no real motivation or incentive to do so. JMU used to be that way too, but then the VA core of the CAA collaspsed causing them to have to re-evaluate their situation. Things have not changed that much for Delaware. Yes the CAA lost is power basketball schools, but Delaware's priority was never basketball, it has always been FCS football. That is why they joined the CAA in the first place, so their sports could be placed under 1 umbrella. They are one of the few programs that make money off of FCS football. Combine that with the fact that they will be an even greater player in the new CAA, why would Delaware give all that up to join the MAC where they will be the southeastern outlier?? The new CAA will be created much to Delaware's liking, and even if there is a southern division, I see that being more appealing to Delaware than traveling to the midwest for every single sport as opposed to the occassional trip down south.

So with Delaware not going anywhere, Villanova will stay put as well, especially since the Temple game is not such a sure thing.

I'm on the fence about UDel. I could see them joining the MAC and trying their luck at FBS as their conference is falling down around them. Yes, they could be the only big time team in the CAAfb but I think that not a major factor.

But to summarize, you think Nova would rather stay in a crummy CAA solely for 1 game with UDel which they could play annually OOC?

That could be true but I think if history shows us anything its that rivalries don't matter.

If not for their bball, Villanova would be the perfect fit for the Patriot League. It seems to me that Nova bball is now secure in the Big East so top priority should be to secure Nova fb and other than the Ivy League and the SWAC there's really not a more stable league than the Patriot.

Add W&M (all sports), Nova and Richmond (fb onlys), and a 12th non-fb addition (like Fordham or Fairfield) and that league is pretty solid in both athletics and academics every which way.

Some combo of CoC, UNCW, UDel, Towson, Hofstra, Northeastern and their new additions pales in comparison IMO.

We will just have to disagree about Nova jumping FCS leagues. Doing so what jeopardize their game against Delaware as the Blue Hens would not be too excited about Nova moving and jeopardizing what they worked hard to build.

As for Delaware, they are going to be a new kingpin for the CAA. Why rejoin the AEast when you can take whom you want to be with you? I think Stony Brook would jump at the chance of reuniting with Delaware and Hofstra if offered. We will have to disagree on that too.

I agree that if JMU leaves W&M is gone. CAA was great for W&M due to the VA core. Without that, the Patriot does fit them better. While I would love for them to stay, if JMU is going to go so will W&M. But that does not mean the death of the CAA. At worst they have 7 members. Either they shed CoC and UNCW to the SoCon and then grab AE schools becoming the American East 2.0, or they build true north and south divisions restablishing the conference as a mid major power.

The Bishin Cutter · **Joined:** Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:41 am **Posts:** 926

Quote:

We will just have to disagree about Nova jumping FCS leagues. Doing so what jeopardize their game against Delaware as the Blue Hens would not be too excited about Nova moving and jeopardizing what they worked hard to build.

This makes no sense. Villanova would have gone FBS had the Big East schools ok'd the subsidy. And Talley was behind it. Still is and actually quite upset they didn't. He started recruiting very well telling kids they were moving, and when it wasn't to be, started losing talent. Where was the Delaware game in all of that?

And let's not pretend Delaware is "content" in FCS. They're spending money studying FBS. They have a feasibility plan in place. I know the money seems arbitrary, but not every FCS program are doing these reports. To even invest on such a thing means one has to be okay with potentially severing ties with local rivalries.

They've both flirted with the idea of leaving each other. No reason to believe they're inseparable in FCS.

Quote:

As for Delaware, they are going to be a new kingpin for the CAA. Why rejoin the AEast when you can take whom you want to be with you? I think Stony Brook would jump at the chance of reuniting with Delaware and Hofstra if offered. We will have to disagree on that too.

As long as a Virginia school resides in the CAA, they will ALWAYS be the kingpin. Delaware's a Towson-like appendage at best.

And how's Delaware's sway going? Stony Brook's been chomping at the bit to get into the CAA for all sports. Sounds like Hofstra and Drexel have more say with one less sport than Delaware has with all of them.

CAA used to be a good collection of public and private schools. It's becoming too saturated with private schools with no football holding it against public schools who field the sport. If the next move is go acquire Elon or Davidson over absorbing the rest of Albany or Stony Brook, when will you see this is not to Delaware's favor?

accseahawk · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:18 am

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Quote:

We will just have to disagree about Nova jumping FCS leagues. Doing so what jeopardize their game against Delaware as the Blue Hens would not be too excited about Nova moving and jeopardizing what they worked hard to build.

This makes no sense. Villanova would have gone FBS had the Big East schools ok'd the subsidy. And Talley was behind it. Still is and actually quite upset they didn't. He started recruiting very well telling kids they were moving, and when it wasn't to be, started losing talent. Where was the Delaware game in all of that?

And let's not pretend Delaware is "content" in FCS. They're spending money studying FBS. They have a feasibility plan in place. I know the money seems arbitrary, but not every FCS program are doing these reports. To even invest on such a thing means one has to be okay with potentially severing ties with local rivalries.

They've both flirted with the idea of leaving each other. No reason to believe they're inseparable in FCS.

leaving your biggest rival to jump to FBS, where the would have been playing other Big time eastern schools, is quite different then leaving your biggest rival by switching FCS leagues. The CAA is still the toughest FCS league out there. Unless Nova is de-emphasizing their current level of commitment at the FCS level, they have no reason to switch. Delaware may move up, but what have they done to show that they are legitimately interested in doing so?

The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Quote:

As for Delaware, they are going to be a new kingpin for the CAA. Why rejoin the AEast when you can take whom you want to be with you? I think Stony Brook would jump at the chance of reuniting with Delaware and Hofstra if offered. We will have to disagree on that too.

As long as a Virginia school resides in the CAA, they will ALWAYS be the kingpin. Delaware's a Towson-like appendage at best.

And how's Delaware's sway going? Stony Brook's been chomping at the bit to get into the CAA for all sports. Sounds like Hofstra and Drexel have more say with one less sport than Delaware has with all of them.

CAA used to be a good collection of public and private schools. It's becoming too saturated with private schools with no football holding it against public schools who field the sport. If the next move is go acquire Elon or Davidson over absorbing the rest of Albany or Stony Brook, when will you see this is not to Delaware's favor?

As I have said before, the CAA can do all of the above by expanding and establishing true north-south divisions with little interdivisional play. My best hypothesis is that Stony Brook and Albany will not be added as all sports until appropriate southern schools can be added for UNCW and CoC. So its not as if Delaware is not getting what they want because of other northern members, its the southern members making sure they are taken care of by further southern expansion and not becoming southern misfits.

At the end of the day I bet you will see a 14 team CAA with the north addding Stony Brook and Hofstra and the South adding between 3 to 5 southern members (depending on if/when JMU and W&M leave). The FCS league will be preserved under the CAA banner and basketball will continue to be emphasized as the top priority.

North- Northeastern, Albany, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, Towson
South- JMU, W&M, Davidson, Elon, UNCG, UNCW, CoC

CAA FCS-
Maine, UNH, URI, Stony Brook, Albany, Villanova
Delaware, Richmond, Towson, JMU, WMU, Elon

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1654

Well, maybe.... but didn't some of those SoCon schools you have being invited say "Thanks but no thanks" to the CAA last summer ?

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1331

Looks like JMU may have said no to the Sun Belt and Liberty is on deck.
http://fboutpost.blogspot.com/2013/04/h ... berty.html

This may stop all the W&M to the Patriot League talk.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:44 pm

tkalmus wrote:

Looks like JMU may have said no to the Sun Belt and Liberty is on deck.
http://fboutpost.blogspot.com/2013/04/h ... berty.html

This may stop all the W&M to the Patriot League talk.

If JMU turned down SBC w/ that stadium and potential I'd fire the Prez and AD. Only reason to say no is if they plan on going to the MAC

accseahawk · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:35 pm

I wonder if the CAA would push for JMU to go to the MAC for football only and allow them to keep their sports in the CAA. That would solidfy JMU in the CAA long term and keep W&M happy! This would make the CAA more attractive to SoCon schools too!

CAA football could then add Monmouth as an affiliate from the Big South. Monmouth would do a lot to solidify CAA football as they just moved to the MAAC and would be very happy to have a long term football home in the CAA

FCS CAA
Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth
Delaware, Villanova, Towson, WMU, Richmond, Elon

CAA North- Northeastern, Albany, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Delaware, Drexel, Towson
CAA South- W&M, JMU, Davidson, Elon, UNCG, UNCW, CoC.

As for the SoCon schools rejecting the CAA, yes Davidson has turned them down. But if Davidson refuses to budge take Elon and UNCG along with Stony Brook olympic sports. Establish a 12 team North South and then when Davidson is ready added them and Albany for all sports.

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:42 pm

JMU looking at the MAC, but not until Sept. could they go all sports or A10/MAC or stay CAA/MAC

http://maroonmusket.com/2013/04/jmu-has ... um=twitter

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1654

A-10 / MAC maybe ? That would give MAC 12 /14.

Since adding GMU, A-10 is at an odd number.
Assuming they would lose 2 to Big East (St. Louis U and either Dayton or an eastern school like VCU), the A-10 may want to add another.
Maybe they HAVE invited JMU and were told that JMU's response is pending....

UNH_Alum_In_CT · **Joined:** Sat May 15, 2010 10:07 am **Posts:** 21

Some miscellaneous comments:

From what I've heard from some W&M folks (and have read on message boards), W&M will have zero interest in the Patriot League as long as they utilize that Academic Index (AI) and do not allow redshirting. W&M used to be in the SoCon many, many moons ago (pun intended) so that is probably the more logical destination for the Tribe if they move.

While it might seemslike a gigantic ball has been set on the tee for America East to crush, unfortunately when they get that driver in their hand, history tells us they either top the ball into the water hazard in front of the tee or slice the ball out of bounds! (Didn't include hooking the ball out of bounds because they would imply a certain amount of skill.)

Does anyone seriously think Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel or Delaware would lose face and rejoin America East????? :shock:

BTW, there is no rejoining for Stony Brook as they were coming up the D-III to D-I trail when those four schools were members of the NAC/AEC.

If the CAA does add Stony Brook and Albany for all sports, you must also consider the catastrophic impact on America East. Many Olympic sports would fall below the six team threshold for the AQ. CCSU and Bryant said no because they'd had no place to park their football programs, still wouldn't. UNH wants and needs CAA Football to remain strong. What if they had to join the CAA for all sports to protect football? Would Maine follow, cut football scholarships and join the NEC, drop football or drop to D-II for all sports?????? Where are the AE expansion candidates going to come from? After Rutgers, all the publics in NJ are D-III, correct? All the public schools in Eastern PA are all D-II and AFAIK have never shown any interest in going D-I. NY State is cash strapped and I don't think has any plans for other upgrades to D-I. With the long travel to Western PA, why not just go to VA when you already have UMBC and relationships with W&M???

Personally, I think the CAA should follow the lead of other conferences and lose as much of the hybrid status as possible. While it probably makes more sense for America East to sponsor the football league, there are probably too many old political issues for that to ever happen. Besides, the CAA has always had superior administration so it's more likely they'd continue to administer the football league. Whether they can do so without blowing up the AEC and/or the SoCon is the $64K Question!!

Fresno St. Alum · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:09 pm

UNH_Alum_In_CT wrote:

Some miscellaneous comments:

From what I've heard from some W&M folks (and have read on message boards), W&M will have zero interest in the Patriot League as long as they utilize that Academic Index (AI) and do not allow redshirting. W&M used to be in the SoCon many, many moons ago (pun intended) so that is probably the more logical destination for the Tribe if they move.

While it might seemslike a gigantic ball has been set on the tee for America East to crush, unfortunately when they get that driver in their hand, history tells us they either top the ball into the water hazard in front of the tee or slice the ball out of bounds! (Didn't include hooking the ball out of bounds because they would imply a certain amount of skill.)

Does anyone seriously think Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel or Delaware would lose face and rejoin America East????? :shock:

BTW, there is no rejoining for Stony Brook as they were coming up the D-III to D-I trail when those four schools were members of the NAC/AEC.

If the CAA does add Stony Brook and Albany for all sports, you must also consider the catastrophic impact on America East. Many Olympic sports would fall below the six team threshold for the AQ. CCSU and Bryant said no because they'd had no place to park their football programs, still wouldn't. UNH wants and needs CAA Football to remain strong. What if they had to join the CAA for all sports to protect football? Would Maine follow, cut football scholarships and join the NEC, drop football or drop to D-II for all sports?????? Where are the AE expansion candidates going to come from? After Rutgers, all the publics in NJ are D-III, correct? All the public schools in Eastern PA are all D-II and AFAIK have never shown any interest in going D-I. NY State is cash strapped and I don't think has any plans for other upgrades to D-I. With the long travel to Western PA, why not just go to VA when you already have UMBC and relationships with W&M???

Personally, I think the CAA should follow the lead of other conferences and lose as much of the hybrid status as possible. While it probably makes more sense for America East to sponsor the football league, there are probably too many old political issues for that to ever happen. Besides, the CAA has always had superior administration so it's more likely they'd continue to administer the football league. Whether they can do so without blowing up the AEC and/or the SoCon is the $64K Question!!

How about add Albany and Stony Brook for all sports. Offer fb only to CCSU and Bryant so they can go to the AEC for other sports. NJIT gives you 10. Unless you have a better option from a NE10 or ECC school wanting to move up.

tute79 · **Joined:** Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 1654

Pretty sure Patriot League announced about 6 months ago, that they would go scholarship.

They were already scholly in BB.

For football they used the Academic Index.
Fordham (an affilaite) bascially called them on it, and said that they were goinng ahead with 63 scholarship equivalents (this was a bit over a year ago).
The Patriot would not kick htem out, but made Fordham ineligible for the league title while they "studied the matter".
Then they announced they were going to scholarships (which conforms to the rest of FCS (except for the Ivy League)).

I see your point about the schools losing face if they go back to the AE.

I still think an AE/CAA merger may make a ton of sense.
Maybe the CAA would have to approach AE and suggest a merger (with CAA as surviving entitiy) with the implication they will pick the AE apart if they resist.
Note: the CAA currently does not sponsor CAA FB (since they are below hte min. 6). CAA FB is an independent entity run outof the CAA office.
A merger would let the combined conference bring FB "in house" and they could then control any additional invittions.

accseahawk · **Posted:** Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:39 pm

tute79 wrote:

Pretty sure Patriot League announced about 6 months ago, that they would go scholarship.

They were already scholly in BB.

For football they used the Academic Index.
Fordham (an affilaite) bascially called them on it, and said that they were goinng ahead with 63 scholarship equivalents (this was a bit over a year ago).
The Patriot would not kick htem out, but made Fordham ineligible for the league title while they "studied the matter".
Then they announced they were going to scholarships (which conforms to the rest of FCS (except for the Ivy League)).

I see your point about the schools losing face if they go back to the AE.

I still think an AE/CAA merger may make a ton of sense.
Maybe the CAA would have to approach AE and suggest a merger (with CAA as surviving entitiy) with the implication they will pick the AE apart if they resist.
Note: the CAA currently does not sponsor CAA FB (since they are below hte min. 6). CAA FB is an independent entity run outof the CAA office.
A merger would let the combined conference bring FB "in house" and they could then control any additional invittions.

but what happens to UNCW and CoC. Unless they can be 1) be assured safe passage into the SoCon and 2) have a desire to go to the SoCon a full AE/CAA merger won't happen.

As for the JMU to A10 idea, I just don't see that happening. JMU basketball does not add much for A10. The CAA would be wise to push for them to do the MAC football only CAA Olympic sport alignment if they want to upgrade

CAA can add Stony Brook and Albany for All Sports. AE can add NJIT to get back to 8 right away and then look for upgrade candidates from D2 or, as suggested above, work something out so a NEC member can join AE and CAA for football only.

I agree with the sentiment that the cleanest option would be for JMU to go to the MAC in all sports, W&M to the Patriot, with UNCW and CoC to the SoCon, but I don't think that is what any of the 4 want.

CAA Realignment

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