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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:42 am 
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Cutter, I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying FSU can't play in the cold and that they are too scared to join the SEC so they are perfectly happy to be in the ACC?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:02 pm 
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seanbo wrote:
Cutter, I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying FSU can't play in the cold and that they are too scared to join the SEC so they are perfectly happy to be in the ACC?


I don't know if it's fear that keeps them out of the SEC. I think it's ego. Ego from the administration, and ego from the core boosters (including the former coach). I think Bowden was kind of a hack, but he was smart enough to propel his program to the top by way of a talent-rich, football-craving state and region beating up lesser competition...be it in the mid-south as an independent, or up and down the coast in the ACC.

I don't think it's in FSU to regularly compete up in the Big Ten. They aren't a program built to, although I do think they could do well enough to bowl most years. They're a warm-weather school; they recruit and draw warm-weather kids and fans. To alienate that base...imagine the California schools recruiting deep into Texas and Louisiana for basketball players. It's just goofy.

FSU isn't an ACC school. Not academically, not athletically. But, it wants to look good. They need to prioritize there...if they're serious about competing at the top level, they need to do whatever it takes to get into the SEC; something, I suspect, that's not the SEC's problem to solve, but getting people out of the FSU system to stop holding them back.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:31 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
seanbo wrote:
Cutter, I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying FSU can't play in the cold and that they are too scared to join the SEC so they are perfectly happy to be in the ACC?


I don't know if it's fear that keeps them out of the SEC. I think it's ego. Ego from the administration, and ego from the core boosters (including the former coach). I think Bowden was kind of a hack, but he was smart enough to propel his program to the top by way of a talent-rich, football-craving state and region beating up lesser competition...be it in the mid-south as an independent, or up and down the coast in the ACC.

I don't think it's in FSU to regularly compete up in the Big Ten. They aren't a program built to, although I do think they could do well enough to bowl most years. They're a warm-weather school; they recruit and draw warm-weather kids and fans. To alienate that base...imagine the California schools recruiting deep into Texas and Louisiana for basketball players. It's just goofy.



FSU isn't an ACC school. Not academically, not athletically. But, it wants to look good. They need to prioritize there...if they're serious about competing at the top level, they need to do whatever it takes to get into the SEC; something, I suspect, that's not the SEC's problem to solve, but getting people out of the FSU system to stop holding them back.


FSU choice the ACC over the SEC for 2 reasons.
1. At the time, the ACC's payout to schools was more than the SEC.
2. Bowden thought the ACC had the easier path to the National Championship.

In hind sight, it was a horrible decision and one that FSU will pay for until they join the B1G or SEC which may never happen.

As far as joining the B1G, alienating FSU's recruiting base wouldn't be as goofy if they were added with GT, UNC, and UVa. They already play Maryland so it wouldn't be so goofy.

As far as FSU's ability to compete in the B1G, I couldn't disagree with you more. We are going to have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think FSU has as much talent as anyone in the B1G and in most cases more. Under Jimbo, FSU is built more SEC-like than any team in the nation outside of the SEC.

I dream of the day that FSU joins the SEC even though I believe they would be more competitive in the B1G.
I don't think the SEC wants FSU, I hope they change their mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:05 am 
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With all due to respect, I personally don't want Florida State to join either the SEC or the B1G or the Big 12. The Noles were SO close to be on the national title hunt, but no thanks to N.C. State (an unranked team) who shocked them in the end. I won't ever forget that game. Because of that, the Noles were on the top 10 on the BCS overall standings since then (with about almost the top 5 by the AP polls, BUT about outside the top 20 by the computer polls). How ridiculous was that. But it would had end either way after losing to natural state rival Florida of the SEC. So the Noles are ACC-bound in my book, and they'll stay there, no matter what! Plus, they also have a dedicated and dominant baseball program (with like 50+ wins per season within the last 3.5 decades, despite being SO close to be on the national title game series of the CWS).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:58 am 
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seanbo wrote:
As far as joining the B1G, alienating FSU's recruiting base wouldn't be as goofy if they were added with GT, UNC, and UVa. They already play Maryland so it wouldn't be so goofy.


If those schools also joined the Big Ten. But of those four, only FSU has the most substance to the speculation. The other three have publicly denied any chatter, and even put down the thought of leaving.

But if UMD is the only link, it's still a huge leap; it's only one team, and one team that had no deep ties to anyone in the ACC. Financially, FSU won't be *that* much better off, given the added travel for EVERY program. You have to convince locals to come down to watch really bad games with no geographic or cultural bond, and that's not just the revenue sports. And the recruiting won't be easy. I like their chances (because of their location) more than Nebraska, who lived off of that Oklahoma rivalry to dip into Texas, but the recruiting will be impacted in some way. It always does.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:24 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
seanbo wrote:
As far as joining the B1G, alienating FSU's recruiting base wouldn't be as goofy if they were added with GT, UNC, and UVa. They already play Maryland so it wouldn't be so goofy.


If those schools also joined the Big Ten. But of those four, only FSU has the most substance to the speculation. The other three have publicly denied any chatter, and even put down the thought of leaving.

But if UMD is the only link, it's still a huge leap; it's only one team, and one team that had no deep ties to anyone in the ACC. Financially, FSU won't be *that* much better off, given the added travel for EVERY program. You have to convince locals to come down to watch really bad games with no geographic or cultural bond, and that's not just the revenue sports. And the recruiting won't be easy. I like their chances (because of their location) more than Nebraska, who lived off of that Oklahoma rivalry to dip into Texas, but the recruiting will be impacted in some way. It always does.



In case you missed this

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blo ... letic.html

I know one way to make more and as far as travel

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-0 ... department


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:16 am 
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seanbo wrote:


It's nice to see UNC wanting to make the kind of money they should command being a top school with a huge fanbase. They should want a significant revenue increase...there's no reason schools like Purdue, Minnesota, Washington State, Oregon State, and Baylor should be making more money off of television than the Tarheels. That's bad enough as is.

...but I don't think that means "what I really mean is that I'm taking this train to Chicago!" And this very same guy said these things?

As for the UMD subsidy, nobody knows what those details are outside of UMD and the B1G. Is it a true subsidy? Is it a loan? Duration? A fix for the ACC lawsuit? Are there revenue distribution matters that will be impacted by this?

I don't buy into the Big Ten bending over for FSU like it's doing for UMD. Maryland's the better school. It's got better markets tied to it. There are scores of Big Ten alumni in the Beltway. It's just a better fit for both sides.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:50 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
seanbo wrote:


It's nice to see UNC wanting to make the kind of money they should command being a top school with a huge fanbase. They should want a significant revenue increase...there's no reason schools like Purdue, Minnesota, Washington State, Oregon State, and Baylor should be making more money off of television than the Tarheels. That's bad enough as is.

...but I don't think that means "what I really mean is that I'm taking this train to Chicago!" And this very same guy said these things?

As for the UMD subsidy, nobody knows what those details are outside of UMD and the B1G. Is it a true subsidy? Is it a loan? Duration? A fix for the ACC lawsuit? Are there revenue distribution matters that will be impacted by this?

I don't buy into the Big Ten bending over for FSU like it's doing for UMD. Maryland's the better school. It's got better markets tied to it. There are scores of Big Ten alumni in the Beltway. It's just a better fit for both sides.


The state of Florida has more cable households than Maryland, Virginia and DC combined and I know, no one moves to Florida.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:53 am 
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Doing divisions with 14 is a bit awkward but doable. Nothing is going to be perfect whatever is finalized. Using an east-west format similar to the SEC model, this could be suggested given the questions of whether to split Mich.-MSU or IU-Purdue. Why not both and use a permanent cross-over for each? Apparently some in the B1G want a design of more rotation and avoid the permanent cross-overs due to certain interests. I think a permanent cross-over should be considered.

EAST:
Rutgers (regular cross-over Minnesota)
Maryland (regular cross-over Iowa)
Penn State (regular cross-over Nebraska)
Ohio State (regular cross-over Wisconsin)
Michigan (regular cross-over Michigan State)
Indiana (regular cross-over Purdue)
Illinois (regular cross-over Northwestern)

WEST:

Michigan State (regular cross-over Michigan)
Northwestern (regular cross-over Illinois)
Purdue (regular cross-over Indiana)
Wisconsin (regular cross-over Ohio State)
Minnesota (regular cross-over Rutgers)
Iowa (regular cross-over Maryland)
Nebraska (regular cross-over Penn State)

8, 9, 10 games conference games could be adapted.
OK, I would know the immediate criticisms. But, similar to the SEC, it would connect the extremes, though the SEC does not have any states with split divisions within.
Northwestern, instead of Illinois, could be in the east since the Chicago area is a travel hub, but for media and other logistic reasons, may serve the west better.
While some cross-overs are much tougher than others, it could protect certain high profile games. Some have much easier travel and convenience for the cross-over, but that is very evident in the SEC also. No model is perfect.
I don't see with 14 and the new divisions they are pondering, how all members shall be totally satisfied.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Related with Maryland and Rutgers, which of the two is "Leaders-wise" and "Legends-wise", for the sake of division alignment?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:22 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Related with Maryland and Rutgers, which of the two is "Leaders-wise" and "Legends-wise", for the sake of division alignment?


They'll both get Penn State, I'm sure. Whether that means they both go in the same division, I don't know.

seanbo wrote:
The state of Florida has more cable households than Maryland, Virginia and DC combined and I know, no one moves to Florida.


I'd wager anything that the game in Landover, MD between PSU and Indiana (where PSU was the road team, no less) was done intentionally to demonstrate the value of Maryland to the Big Ten. This article from '10 puts the game into perspective.

I'll believe in FSU's candidacy when Minnesota and Iowa have a scrum in Raymond James Stadium or EverBank Field.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:31 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Related with Maryland and Rutgers, which of the two is "Leaders-wise" and "Legends-wise", for the sake of division alignment?


They'll both get Penn State, I'm sure. Whether that means they both go in the same division, I don't know.


I'm not talking about East-West division alignment yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:33 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Related with Maryland and Rutgers, which of the two is "Leaders-wise" and "Legends-wise", for the sake of division alignment?


They'll both get Penn State, I'm sure. Whether that means they both go in the same division, I don't know.


I'm not talking about East-West division alignment yet.


I didn't mean to imply it! I just believe they'll keep the three bound regardless; however, with that "subsidy," maybe that makes UMD the Legend member?

It's tough...put UMD in as a Legend, and sever them from PSU, RU, and OSU? Seems pretty extreme geographically...I can't imagine UMD for that as much as Rutgers would be (I think they could have asked Rutgers to do anything, even change their colors and name, and they may have done so). Sever PSU from UNL to keep UMD-PSU, which one holds more value? The regional thing or the national interest? Maybe protect UMD and RU...but those two have nothing really to protect?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:16 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
seanbo wrote:
Cutter, I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying FSU can't play in the cold and that they are too scared to join the SEC so they are perfectly happy to be in the ACC?


I don't know if it's fear that keeps them out of the SEC. I think it's ego. Ego from the administration, and ego from the core boosters (including the former coach). I think Bowden was kind of a hack, but he was smart enough to propel his program to the top by way of a talent-rich, football-craving state and region beating up lesser competition...be it in the mid-south as an independent, or up and down the coast in the ACC.

I don't think it's in FSU to regularly compete up in the Big Ten. They aren't a program built to, although I do think they could do well enough to bowl most years. They're a warm-weather school; they recruit and draw warm-weather kids and fans. To alienate that base...imagine the California schools recruiting deep into Texas and Louisiana for basketball players. It's just goofy.

FSU isn't an ACC school. Not academically, not athletically. But, it wants to look good. They need to prioritize there...if they're serious about competing at the top level, they need to do whatever it takes to get into the SEC; something, I suspect, that's not the SEC's problem to solve, but getting people out of the FSU system to stop holding them back.


FSU is not in control of getting into the SEC. UF, UGA, UK, USC, and now Texas A&M are. They will not allow another team from their state to get into the league. It would remove a tremendous recruiting advantage those schools have over their in-state rivals.
The SEC is also not going to expand with a team in a market they are already represented in. It doesn't make sense in terms of TV dollars. For FSU to get into the SEC, they would have to move to North Carolina.

If the SEC expands, I am betting they will, the list of candidates would include UNC amd Duke (Duke's football would be hard to accept, but hoops and academics would be nice, plus it might be what it takes to land UNC), NC State, UVA or Va Tech, or possibly OU/okie state (once again, I doubt the SEC would double down in a market, but if they could get OU, maybe it would be worth it).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Maryland and Rutgers will be in the East Division with Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St and probably Indiana. It'll be announced by June 2.


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