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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:14 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.


Like a D-I-AAA-like of football subdivision or something? And if the WAC would still exist, it would be in the same level as the MWC, MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA and AAC (old Big East).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:01 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.



Boom. Yes. This. MAC, SBC, BSC, MVC, CAA etc. I'll accept the status quo but in no way should the divisions be merged.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:24 am 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.



Boom. Yes. This. MAC, SBC, BSC, MVC, CAA etc. I'll accept the status quo but in no way should the divisions be merged.


If we became the new I-AA we wouldn't get as much as we do now for playing BCS schools or as many games vs them, plus we'd never get a home game. The tv time and $$$ would drop to what the I-AA gets.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:52 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.



Boom. Yes. This. MAC, SBC, BSC, MVC, CAA etc. I'll accept the status quo but in no way should the divisions be merged.


If we became the new I-AA we wouldn't get as much as we do now for playing BCS schools or as many games vs them, plus we'd never get a home game. The tv time and $$$ would drop to what the I-AA gets.


That's why the MWC and AAC stay at the highest level. Besides, the big schools will need some smaller schools in OOC games too.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:39 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
46566 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
NorwichCat11 wrote:
Okay, NCAA - whom do you seriously see besides Liberty? James Madison and U. Tennessee - C. have both apparently turned the SBC down and there are not too many other candidates in the east that want to make the jump. Unless someone other than the SBC has info that I don't? (this is just about anyone else :D ) So let's narrow the field:
James Madison - not interested
U. Tennessee - C. - too expensive
Lamar - in the west and small student population
Sam Houston St. - in the west and not interested and not ready
Missouri St. - not interested and not ready
Florida A&M - not interested and see NCAA's post above :roll:
Alabama schools - SBC already has 2 does it really need three? maybe Jacksonville St. if they don't get blocked
So who does this leave? Coastal Carolina? Grambling St.? Norfolk St.? Western Carolina? Or go after some of the Louisiana schools from the Southland Conference (McNeese St., Nicholls St., Southeastern Louisiana) even Central Arkansas?
There is not a whole lot left in the bag if schools are not interested in moving up. Could we then say that Montana killed the WAC? Who is to say that if they had moved up the WAC might not have disappeared? Right now only the SBC and the schools that they are talking too know the answer and we can only hope and guess. We may yet see some surprises.


Either UTC (Chattanooga) or Lamar. But after this realignment is over, I believe that the FCS should be either killed or merged with the FBS, just like the old times since like the early days of the 1970's (like when D-I, D-II and D-III were created), and that's because of the FBS conferences keeping to search FCS schools within their respective regions.


Instead of merging FBS and FCS what about allowing the schools to move up when they want to? The schools would be allowed to enter FBS as a Independent if they want to. This could allow schools to take the initiative and say they want to be looked at as possible expansion candidates. I'm writing this because I'm assuming it's only a amount of time before the big 12 goes back to 12 and start the realignment problem all over again.


You mean most, if not, all FCS schools should move up? Because the FCS would eventually be in danger if the FBS keeps it like that.


basically i was saying going back t how it used to be before the moratorium of schools going to FBS. If i'm not mistaken now you need a invite to move up to fbs. Each school could upgrade to FBS anytime they want without a need for a FBS conference invite. While currently the FBS is pressed to find wiggle room for new schools i think that when the 4 team playoff is running that most bowls will or could have problems filling sports. I also think that if another conference could fit in the FBS level. Lets say the Montana schools and the Dakotas and they invite Idaho. I figure they could take a couple of the low level bowl spots (potato bowl and the one in Detroit) Most of the bowls will be unimportant after next year anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:41 am 
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46566 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
46566 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
NorwichCat11 wrote:
Okay, NCAA - whom do you seriously see besides Liberty? James Madison and U. Tennessee - C. have both apparently turned the SBC down and there are not too many other candidates in the east that want to make the jump. Unless someone other than the SBC has info that I don't? (this is just about anyone else :D ) So let's narrow the field:
James Madison - not interested
U. Tennessee - C. - too expensive
Lamar - in the west and small student population
Sam Houston St. - in the west and not interested and not ready
Missouri St. - not interested and not ready
Florida A&M - not interested and see NCAA's post above :roll:
Alabama schools - SBC already has 2 does it really need three? maybe Jacksonville St. if they don't get blocked
So who does this leave? Coastal Carolina? Grambling St.? Norfolk St.? Western Carolina? Or go after some of the Louisiana schools from the Southland Conference (McNeese St., Nicholls St., Southeastern Louisiana) even Central Arkansas?
There is not a whole lot left in the bag if schools are not interested in moving up. Could we then say that Montana killed the WAC? Who is to say that if they had moved up the WAC might not have disappeared? Right now only the SBC and the schools that they are talking too know the answer and we can only hope and guess. We may yet see some surprises.


Either UTC (Chattanooga) or Lamar. But after this realignment is over, I believe that the FCS should be either killed or merged with the FBS, just like the old times since like the early days of the 1970's (like when D-I, D-II and D-III were created), and that's because of the FBS conferences keeping to search FCS schools within their respective regions.


Instead of merging FBS and FCS what about allowing the schools to move up when they want to? The schools would be allowed to enter FBS as a Independent if they want to. This could allow schools to take the initiative and say they want to be looked at as possible expansion candidates. I'm writing this because I'm assuming it's only a amount of time before the big 12 goes back to 12 and start the realignment problem all over again.


You mean most, if not, all FCS schools should move up? Because the FCS would eventually be in danger if the FBS keeps it like that.


basically i was saying going back t how it used to be before the moratorium of schools going to FBS. If i'm not mistaken now you need a invite to move up to fbs. Each school could upgrade to FBS anytime they want without a need for a FBS conference invite. While currently the FBS is pressed to find wiggle room for new schools i think that when the 4 team playoff is running that most bowls will or could have problems filling sports. I also think that if another conference could fit in the FBS level. Lets say the Montana schools and the Dakotas and they invite Idaho. I figure they could take a couple of the low level bowl spots (potato bowl and the one in Detroit) Most of the bowls will be unimportant after next year anyway.


Speaking of conferences upgrading to FBS status, and when you mentioned the Montana and Dakota schools (with Idaho), do you mean the Big Sky? It would be a great substitution of the WAC for the Western U.S. region in FBS play.

Another pack of samples: Rutgers, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Penn State, Temple and Virginia Tech are FBS schools that competed on non-football conferences as all-sports members. Rutgers and West Virginia in the A-10 from 1976 to 1995; Pittsburgh in the A-10 from 1976 to 1982 before joining the Big East (now the AAC) until this season ended because it'll join the ACC; Penn State in the A-10 from 1976 to 1991 before joining the Big TEN in 1993; Temple in the A-10 since 1980, who would leave to join the old Big East, now known as the AAC this year; and Virginia Tech in the Metro from 1976 to 1995, and the A-10 from 1995 to 2000). Also the schools that formed original C-USA merger in 1995 used to compete in non-football conferences as all-sports members within the Metro and Great Midwest while being Independents for football.

Also to keep in mind (in general) that the Sun Belt was a non-football conference before sponsoring the sport in 2001, replacing the Big West.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:44 pm 
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I really hate that there is no way in the current system to bring up an entire conference into FBS or for new conferences to form. if the rules were less prohibitive the Montana schools and the best of the Big Sky could someday move up and join Idaho and NMSU in a league that served roughly the same function as the WAC once did. The inability to form a new FBS conference from FCS upgrades really curbed the development in the East too. Imagine if the best of the CAA, SoCon, and new programs like Georgia St and Charlotte could have formed a new league in roughly the same footprint as the ACC--instead we have some schools in that group in the far-flung SBC and C-USA and others still in FCS b/c they can't afford the travel costs of moving up into a league that has schools all the way in Texas.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:35 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I really hate that there is no way in the current system to bring up an entire conference into FBS or for new conferences to form. if the rules were less prohibitive the Montana schools and the best of the Big Sky could someday move up and join Idaho and NMSU in a league that served roughly the same function as the WAC once did. The inability to form a new FBS conference from FCS upgrades really curbed the development in the East too. Imagine if the best of the CAA, SoCon, and new programs like Georgia St and Charlotte could have formed a new league in roughly the same footprint as the ACC--instead we have some schools in that group in the far-flung SBC and C-USA and others still in FCS b/c they can't afford the travel costs of moving up into a league that has schools all the way in Texas.


You have a point there. And what's worse is that for a school to upgrade from FCS status to FBS status is that its football stadium must have at least a minimum of 30,000 seats on capacity (almost every school in the FBS has it about the 40k-50k mark, while most of the BCS FBS conferences have their schools to over 60k to a whooping 100k in capacity seats).

Plus, it's a darn shame that the Big West no longer sponsors football when most of the programs joined the WAC and Sun Belt (before having football) back in 2001.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:41 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.



Boom. Yes. This. MAC, SBC, BSC, MVC, CAA etc. I'll accept the status quo but in no way should the divisions be merged.


If we became the new I-AA we wouldn't get as much as we do now for playing BCS schools or as many games vs them, plus we'd never get a home game. The tv time and $$$ would drop to what the I-AA gets.


That's why the MWC and AAC stay at the highest level. Besides, the big schools will need some smaller schools in OOC games too.

The SBC, MAC etc need the pay day games more than us, if they went down to a new I-AA and joins schools that most of the SBC just left they'd be pissed.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Come to think of it, how about the FBS should sub-divided into two sections: The BCS section (those representing the new playoff format starting in 2014 and former AQ leagues: ACC, SEC, Big TEN, Big 12 and Pac-12); and the new FBS section (those representing the former non-AQ leagues: MAC, C-USA, MWC, Sun Belt and AAC [formerly the Big East])

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SJSUFan2010 wrote:
fighting muskie wrote:
Here's my two cents on the FCS/FBS debate--

I think there needs to be a 3rd classification in the middle--let the MAC, SBC, and maybe C-USA compete with the top FCS conferences for a national championship. You could even argue that since the big boys won't let the MWC or AAC in their club they too should be part of this middle division.



Boom. Yes. This. MAC, SBC, BSC, MVC, CAA etc. I'll accept the status quo but in no way should the divisions be merged.


If we became the new I-AA we wouldn't get as much as we do now for playing BCS schools or as many games vs them, plus we'd never get a home game. The tv time and $$$ would drop to what the I-AA gets.


That's why the MWC and AAC stay at the highest level. Besides, the big schools will need some smaller schools in OOC games too.

The SBC, MAC etc need the pay day games more than us, if they went down to a new I-AA and joins schools that most of the SBC just left they'd be pissed.


Let me show you how I feel about that

:ugeek:

or maybe :|


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:28 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Come to think of it, how about the FBS should sub-divided into two sections: The BCS section (those representing the new playoff format starting in 2014 and former AQ leagues: ACC, SEC, Big TEN, Big 12 and Pac-12); and the new FBS section (those representing the former non-AQ leagues: MAC, C-USA, MWC, Sun Belt and AAC [formerly the Big East])

It already is that way, the AQs each have autobids while the nonAQs all share one, the AQs have nearly 1000% more money (AQ~20-30mil/yr/perschool nonAQ~2mil-less/yr/perschool), better schools/academics, TV exposure, press coverage, bowl contracts, etc.

The money they'll get off of body bag games with the big boys, the occasional visit from big state U, the random bowl payouts and the distribution from the playoff+BCS type elite bowls will always outweigh starting any midlevel playoff system between the FCS/FBS which they would obviously need another FCS conference or two to join up with them to make everything work (or more if they can't get the MWC/AAC) which means more mouths to feed. And just try to tell Boise St, Northern Illinois, or Houston that they'll have to choose NOT to play a school like Florida State in the Orange Bowl in order to play some random other nonAQ schools in Indy or Detroit...it'll never happen.

The only way any of this happens is if the AQ conferences just decide not to include the gang of 5 in their post season anymore and cuts them off from the 'BCS' bowl bids AND the payout, then and only then will they try to start some sort of D1-A.5 division.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:27 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Come to think of it, how about the FBS should sub-divided into two sections: The BCS section (those representing the new playoff format starting in 2014 and former AQ leagues: ACC, SEC, Big TEN, Big 12 and Pac-12); and the new FBS section (those representing the former non-AQ leagues: MAC, C-USA, MWC, Sun Belt and AAC [formerly the Big East])

It already is that way, the AQs each have autobids while the nonAQs all share one, the AQs have nearly 1000% more money (AQ~20-30mil/yr/perschool nonAQ~2mil-less/yr/perschool), better schools/academics, TV exposure, press coverage, bowl contracts, etc.

The money they'll get off of body bag games with the big boys, the occasional visit from big state U, the random bowl payouts and the distribution from the playoff+BCS type elite bowls will always outweigh starting any midlevel playoff system between the FCS/FBS which they would obviously need another FCS conference or two to join up with them to make everything work (or more if they can't get the MWC/AAC) which means more mouths to feed. And just try to tell Boise St, Northern Illinois, or Houston that they'll have to choose NOT to play a school like Florida State in the Orange Bowl in order to play some random other nonAQ schools in Indy or Detroit...it'll never happen.

The only way any of this happens is if the AQ conferences just decide not to include the gang of 5 in their post season anymore and cuts them off from the 'BCS' bowl bids AND the payout, then and only then will they try to start some sort of D1-A.5 division.


I believe that one of the candidate conferences to upgrade from FCS to FBS should be the Big Sky, if that conference adds all the Dakota schools (North Dakota's already in) with UN-Omaha, and have their members' football stadiums to upgrade about 30,000+ in capacity seats, and to also substitute what the WAC once had in that sport.

P.S.: I personally wish that I wanna see Boise State vs. Florida State compete against each other one day. That would be a dream match-like game.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:41 am 
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I like when more schools are added, it makes this place more interesting. I remember when D-I had 298 schools when I started following realignment now 351. quite a few I-AA to I-A move ups in that 23 year time frame too.

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