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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:13 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
I get all that but that why I said they could be more competitive and even win titles in basketball. When we talk about divisions we are typically talking about football and basketball for the most part but as you point out they don't participate in the FCS post season and only play 3 out of conference games (mostly against local or other non-scholarship team) so I'm not really talking about fb. Maybe I should have made it more clear but I think downgrading to DII would help their basketball and give them a chance to win some title which they DO compete in.


Same reason Dallas will never leave the NFC East. History. Would they be more competitive if they moved down? Sure. Do they care? Not really.

And also, they're good in the sports no one cares about (well, I guess to be fair, sports I don't care about). So they'd want to stay in D-I for that. And the Ivy League has had some pretty good teams in the tourney lately. There are plenty of schools in D-I that aren't competitive as the Ivy schools...and they have scholarships.

But something should be done with the D-I football situation. I do think it's ridiculous to have schools without scholarships competing against schools that do.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:54 pm 
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SJSUFan2010 wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
I get all that but that why I said they could be more competitive and even win titles in basketball. When we talk about divisions we are typically talking about football and basketball for the most part but as you point out they don't participate in the FCS post season and only play 3 out of conference games (mostly against local or other non-scholarship team) so I'm not really talking about fb. Maybe I should have made it more clear but I think downgrading to DII would help their basketball and give them a chance to win some title which they DO compete in.


Same reason Dallas will never leave the NFC East. History. Would they be more competitive if they moved down? Sure. Do they care? Not really.

And also, they're good in the sports no one cares about (well, I guess to be fair, sports I don't care about). So they'd want to stay in D-I for that. And the Ivy League has had some pretty good teams in the tourney lately. There are plenty of schools in D-I that aren't competitive as the Ivy schools...and they have scholarships.

But something should be done with the D-I football situation. I do think it's ridiculous to have schools without scholarships competing against schools that do.



The Patriot League was made so that the Ivy League would have non-scholarship football teams to play when they added non-conference games to their schedules. Plus the big point of this is that these schools don't care about sports to nearly the same extent as other schools.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Well, the Ivy League members will continue to play whomever they want OOC, since they don't compete in the FCS Championship.

Patriot Football has moved on to the standard NCAA criteria (moving from the "Academic Index" and awarding scholarship equalavents, theoretically NOT tied to athletics
to coming out and calling a football scholarship a "football scholarship").
Fordham (curiously, only a Football AFFILIATE member) steered them away form this nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:19 am 
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For months, I've seen the new posts in this thread indicator and it just makes me giggle thinking about what the posts might be. I never actually looked until now. I just thought to myself: "Twitter says the Ivy might add Binghamton and Morgan State" and chuckled.

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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:01 am 
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JPSchmack wrote:
For months, I've seen the new posts in this thread indicator and it just makes me giggle thinking about what the posts might be. I never actually looked until now. I just thought to myself: "Twitter says the Ivy might add Binghamton and Morgan State" and chuckled.


It would be cool if D-I implemented the D-II rule where all conf. must have 10 by 2020 or something. Give them Lafayette and Lehigh or let them have a D-III to D-I waiver and bring Johns Hopkins, MIT

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:19 pm 
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I do think there is one scenario where the ivy could expand.

Should Football drive off the cliff and form it's own governing structure and leave the NCAA, I could see other like minded institutions seeking a relationship with the Ivy.

Perhaps not outright Ivy-expansion, but perhaps a joint venture - and Ivy-west, per se. I could see Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Duke (as examples) refusing to join the lemmings, and sticking with their values.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:24 pm 
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http://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html

It's now 2015, would Northwestern be willing to drop football down to FCS in order to join the Ivy League?

Ditto Army.

Imagine what Northwestern could charge for admission with the official "Ivy" status. Surely that would offset going 6-6 in football every year and never once making March Madness. Likewise, would Navy rather play Tulsa and pals or win the FCS playoffs every year AND get the "Ivy" status?

Might Missouri or some other school replace Northwestern in the Big Ten?

When drawing out elaborate expansion scenarios, I always look for a win-win for each conference involved. This scenario is win-win-win-win? (Big Ten, Ivy League, Independent, AAC?). Might this actually happen someday? I hope so. This scenario is a shot in the arm on almost a cosmic level for expansion junkies like me. I honestly do see this a win-win-win-win* (*does the AAC still want Navy?). Jim Delany has also said, "no union school will play in the Big Ten" which was a direct reference to the State of Illinois upholding Northwestern's right to form a union among its student athletes. And I'll close with this...

Say something was afoot within the hallowed back rooms of Ivy League A.D.'s. That being the case, neither you nor I nor Chip Brown would have any intel. Surely if anyone on the planet could keep a tight P.R. lid on anything re: conference realignment (if so desired to keep said lid), it would be the private institutions within the Ivy League. Timeline? The Big Ten has a Grant of Rights that ends around 2034, but Northwestern unionizing immediately changes the picture. It is my guess that Northwestern would be allowed to walk as I highly doubt the Big Ten would challenge the lawyer might of the Ivy League (and risk losing that case) for the right to keep its lowest revenue generating and only private member of the Big Ten.... especially as other more lucrative replacements for Northwestern exist among the college sports landscape.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:28 pm 
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bigshotbob wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html

It's now 2015, would Northwestern be willing to drop football down to FCS in order to join the Ivy League?

Ditto Army.

Imagine what Northwestern could charge for admission with the official "Ivy" status. Surely that would offset going 6-6 in football every year and never once making March Madness. Likewise, would Navy rather play Tulsa and pals or win the FCS playoffs every year AND get the "Ivy" status?

Might Missouri or some other school replace Northwestern in the Big Ten?

When drawing out elaborate expansion scenarios, I always look for a win-win for each conference involved. This scenario is win-win-win-win? (Big Ten, Ivy League, Independent, AAC?). Might this actually happen someday? I hope so. This scenario is a shot in the arm on almost a cosmic level for expansion junkies like me. I honestly do see this a win-win-win-win* (*does the AAC still want Navy?). Jim Delany has also said, "no union school will play in the Big Ten" which was a direct reference to the State of Illinois upholding Northwestern's right to form a union among its student athletes. And I'll close with this...

Say something was afoot within the hallowed back rooms of Ivy League A.D.'s. That being the case, neither you nor I nor Chip Brown would have any intel. Surely if anyone on the planet could keep a tight P.R. lid on anything re: conference realignment (if so desired to keep said lid), it would be the private institutions within the Ivy League. Timeline? The Big Ten has a Grant of Rights that ends around 2034, but Northwestern unionizing immediately changes the picture. It is my guess that Northwestern would be allowed to walk as I highly doubt the Big Ten would challenge the lawyer might of the Ivy League (and risk losing that case) for the right to keep its lowest revenue generating and only private member of the Big Ten.... especially as other more lucrative replacements for Northwestern exist among the college sports landscape.



That article is from 1982. :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:31 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
That article is from 1982. :shock:


I thought the same thing! However, bigshotbob did lead with "It's now 2015..."

The article does bring up a good point: even the incredibly stable Ivy League considered expansion at one point (probably more.) Northwestern with its unionization (and the B1G's response to unionizing) may be a good fit with the Ivy League. In the end, if they do get kicked out of the B1G, I can see them joining Notre Dame as #15/#16 in the ACC or maybe even join the XII. Adding Northwestern and Cincinnati would be 2 big market schools adjoining the XII's two islands of Iowa St and West Virginia. I don't think Army or Navy would go down with them to FCS, though.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:21 am 
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Adding Army and Northwestern would really add some punch to Ivy League athletics though. Harvard coming to Chicago to play Northwestern or Harvard playing "America's Heroes" at West Point definitely has some market value. At that point though, Navy would want a piece of the pie. Perhaps a 12-team Ivy League with:

*Army
*Navy
*Northwestern and...

Duke???? (Might they ditch the ACC for Ivy League distinction??)
Wake Forest??? (Will Wake even have a P5 home in 2030?)
Johns Hopkins???

Just a hunch, but I think the Ivy League will expand. The "wow" factor of pulling from the Big Ten or ACC is somewhat realistic for them and these six schools all have borderline Ivy League academics. In the case that they aren't up to par, perhaps they could be improved just enough to make par.

Not too long ago,Cornell played like a legitimate Top 10 team in basketball. Imagine if Duke, Harvard, Northwestern ect. all had teams of that caliber. ESPN televising Ivy League??? Wow. They just might. It's extremely easy to market "10 Dukes" compared to "10 big state schools whose players look nearly identical to convicts". Seriously, white or black if you have entire sleeves and your neck covered in tattoos and you speak slang to CBS reporters after the game, then your ratings are not going to be as good as Harvard kids in the Final Four who tell you after the game that they have homework to work on. Likewise, if the players on your "college" team *ahem* Kentucky *ahem* only attend for one semester, then you can't even really call yourself a college program at that point. The sad thing is that Duke does this now. Never thought I would see the day when Coach K would rather win a basketball game than develop a young man for life over three to four years. Austin Rivers attended three classes at Duke for just one semester. And he was gone just like Duke was after losing to VCU in the First Round. Kentucky took a one-and-done squad to the NIT and lost to Robert Morris. The solution for Duke and Kentucky? Double down on the strategy and just fill out your roster with even more one-and-dones. Is 10% of "college" basketball still considered "college basketball"? Are these literally just glorified AAU teams now?

I think what I'm getting at here is that the Ivy League is in a unique position to market its "college" athletics . Their problem right now is that they have the squeaky clean image, but their teams all stink. With power conference schools added to the mix, the Ivy League could cash a check from ESPN, put multiple schools in the NCAA's and grow its brand even more by reaching new non-East Coast audiences. Imagine if Wake Forest accepted an invite to the Ivy League tomorrow. Would the ACC have the guts to "prevent" a "school" from joining the greatest group of "schools" on the planet; thus depriving Wake Forest's students all the perks of being Ivy (and the Deacons working side-by-side with other Ivy League schools)? Would the NCAA take the position of not allowing schools to join the Ivy League in the name of honoring TV contracts? Would the NCAA or any group for that matter even attempt to sue Army? Imagine the public fallout if Jim Delany took the stand against higher learning in the name of financial gain for the Big Ten? In short, any battle against a school accepting an invite to join the Ivy League would be impossible to win. The pros of keeping that school temporarily bound to your conference wouldn't even come close to the cons of basically telling the world that your "conference" is anti-learning.

Or maybe the Ivy League is happy being non-existent in college athletics aside from that Cornell team and a few Princeton teams of the past. This isn't 1920 anymore. The Ivy League could seize the moment if they so desired. We're deep into the "Other Conferences" part of these forums and yet this might be the future of home of at least one P5 school someday.


Last edited by bigshotbob on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:38 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
The article does bring up a good point: even the incredibly stable Ivy League considered expansion at one point (probably more.) Northwestern with its unionization (and the B1G's response to unionizing) may be a good fit with the Ivy League. In the end, if they do get kicked out of the B1G, I can see them joining Notre Dame as #15/#16 in the ACC or maybe even join the XII. Adding Northwestern and Cincinnati would be 2 big market schools adjoining the XII's two islands of Iowa St and West Virginia. I don't think Army or Navy would go down with them to FCS, though.

Northwestern was one of the two BIG schools the ACC was 'showing interest in' as disclosed during the Maryland-ACC lawsuit activity last year.
A number of years back before the old BE broke, Nothwestern even showed slight interest in chatting with the BE when the conference indicated it was considering adding.
Northwestern is the B1G's one private school, and know that means added challenges in remaining competitive in the conference. It may no be so different for Vanderbilt in the SEC.
The rules and obstacles would not be that much different from the B1G if Northwestern was in the ACC (B12 would be too unrealistic).
The ACC offers a menu of private schools: Wake, Duke, BC, 'Cuse, UMFL, Pitt as state-related; but there's also fb-oriented state schools such as FSU, Clemson, VPI, Louisville, GT, NCSU; and bb is pretty competitive up and down the league most years. Going there for Northwestern would not necessarily provide a greater abundance of friendly/compatible competition; and Northwestern would be giving up being a centralized geographic entity in the B1G along with their long history in the conference.
Northwestern would be foolish to leave the B1G unless it became a situation they could not afford it. And 'affording' would become an ACC factor as well.
Northwestern could downgrade if they saw it as a financial must. While hypothetically plausible, NW would not be an ideal Ivy League fit though. To start, NW would be a geographic outlier to the IL.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:33 pm 
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If an elite level of 80 or so FBS programs split into another division or made it impossible for mid and lower level FBS programs to reach the playoffs, I would love to see Army and Navy join the Ivy League. Both are terrific academics that would definitely add to the athletics and fit within the footprint (or close enough to). Plus, I think the military academies offer the oddball sports the Ivies tend to like!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:31 pm 
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BePcr07 wrote:
If an elite level of 80 or so FBS programs split into another division or made it impossible for mid and lower level FBS programs to reach the playoffs, I would love to see Army and Navy join the Ivy League. Both are terrific academics that would definitely add to the athletics and fit within the footprint (or close enough to). Plus, I think the military academies offer the oddball sports the Ivies tend to like!


Since, the Ivy doesn't play in the championships at their level....why don't they add four or six and have their own unique playoff?
Are there four or six schools that the Ivy would accept?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:50 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
BePcr07 wrote:
If an elite level of 80 or so FBS programs split into another division or made it impossible for mid and lower level FBS programs to reach the playoffs, I would love to see Army and Navy join the Ivy League. Both are terrific academics that would definitely add to the athletics and fit within the footprint (or close enough to). Plus, I think the military academies offer the oddball sports the Ivies tend to like!


Since, the Ivy doesn't play in the championships at their level....why don't they add four or six and have their own unique playoff?
Are there four or six schools that the Ivy would accept?


That's a good question. If I were the Ivy League and I wanted to expand, I'd take: Army, Navy, Lehigh, and Lafayette. Four solid academic schools and two great rivalries. Others in consideration: William & Mary and Boston University.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:15 pm 
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What about Colgate and Holy Cross? Both good schools and fit the mold.


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