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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:08 am 
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NORTH

USF
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas State
Oklahoma

SOUTH

Kansas
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
Baylor
Texas


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:24 am 
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B12 is going to try and see what they get placed into the new playoff system. If they land somebody in the mix almost yearly, they may hang at ten. While the selection committee is suppose to be balanced and work with criteria they establish, these bodies do turn political quick, and power influences. That said, the B12 not having a CCG game could hurt in the selection process if a school fails to 'runs the table' for the year. Of course, a 'named' school such as OU or Texas, could slide in with one loss, depending on what's happening elsewhere.

On the UConn potential consideration for the B12, to me, the geography would become even more weird and stretched beyond reason. UConn is a fine school, but a New England school, playing mostly far away midwestern/plains and southwestern schools in all-sports begs for something better, particularly for UConn. Maybe if such also included Cincy and Temple, along with established WVU, it would not look so extreme.

I read somewhere Fox was pushing for USF and UCF for the B12. Not sure how reliable the source was.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
friarfan wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
friarfan wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
westwolf wrote:
Let's get serious. Rice is not getting into the Big 12. They averaged 20,325 in attendance last season.


I don't think the conference should further expand into Texas, but I don't know if one can find consensus as to whom should become 11+. Clearly, WVU is going to one more northern and eastern members, although I don't believe adding Florida schools will help them out any. That kind of leaves only Cincinnati, Memphis, USM, and Tulane as viable "companions" without further Texas absorption. I don't know if any of those schools get a resounding show of support. MAC schools needn't even apply.

...and I think the best candidates, aside from Cincy, are in the west: BYU, AFA, CSU, UNM, SDSU...but try to tell that to WVU.



If the Big XII is going to address West Virginia'a concern about being out on an island and wants to create an eastern wing, the best choice besides Cincy would be UConn. A state flagship in a state that would immediately be the 3rd largest state in the conference represented by its state flagship, they're the kind of school that the Big XII is otherwise made up of.

The distance may seem like a lot. Hartford is almost 500 miles from Morgantown. Yet, no one bats an eye at suggesting BTU for the Big XII and they are almost 900 miles from the closest Big XII school.

UConn is a state flagship and those kinds of schools don't grow on trees. They bring their entire state with no competition from other big time colleges or pros plus parts of neighboring NY and western Massachusetts for a market size of about 4 million. They have the most affluent population in the country, making the advertising dollars worth more there.

At one time there were rumors that leftovers from what appeared to be imploding Big XII wanted to join the Big East. Why not have a wing of leftovers from the now imploded Big East? If they wanted to go to 14, they could go for USF and UCF.

How about the following divisions in a 12 team Big XII:

NORTH

Connecticut
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas State
Oklahoma

SOUTH

Kansas
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas Tech
Baylor
Texas


Don't you mean UConn, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas State as the Big 12 North; and Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor and Texas as the Big 12 South?


Nope.

Putting Kansas in the South and Oklahoma in the North puts the 2 best football programs - Oklahoma & Texas - in separate divisions and the 2 best basketball programs - Kansas and Connecticut - in separate divisions.


Ok, but that's your opinion and point of view. However, have you forgotten about intra-state rivalries such as Kansas vs. Kansas State and Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State?


No, I haven't.

Many conferences have cross division "protected rivalries" which allow for cross division teams to play each other every year. I would envision something of that sort to provide for theKU-KSU and OU-OSU rivalries. Teams have to play cross division games anyway, so they can simply designate those as cross division annual opponents.

More importantly, there have been problems in the past with OU and Texas in the same division where one of them doesn't even get to the championship game. This would open the path for both of them to get to that game. Same principle works for UConn & Kansas in basketball.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:39 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
B12 is going to try and see what they get placed into the new playoff system. If they land somebody in the mix almost yearly, they may hang at ten. While the selection committee is suppose to be balanced and work with criteria they establish, these bodies do turn political quick, and power influences. That said, the B12 not having a CCG game could hurt in the selection process if a school fails to 'runs the table' for the year. Of course, a 'named' school such as OU or Texas, could slide in with one loss, depending on what's happening elsewhere.

On the UConn potential consideration for the B12, to me, the geography would become even more weird and stretched beyond reason. UConn is a fine school, but a New England school, playing mostly far away midwestern/plains and southwestern schools in all-sports begs for something better, particularly for UConn. Maybe if such also included Cincy and Temple, along with established WVU, it would not look so extreme.

I read somewhere Fox was pushing for USF and UCF for the B12. Not sure how reliable the source was.


It seems that it would be too much of a stretch for the Big XII to go to New England, but it would also give them East Coast exposure that could enhance their TV contract.

Consider the fact that TCU was primed to go to the Big East. Is UConn to the Big XII any worse than that?

Remember when everyone thought that the Big XII was imploding with more than half the conference headed to the Big XII? It was widely reported that KU, KSU, ISU, and Missouri had been in conversations with the Big East to see if there was interest from the BE to take them in. What's wrong with a group of BE schools going in the other direction?

I agree that it would make more sense if they were joined by Temple, but I don't know who #14 would be if the Big XII added Cincy, UConn, & Temple. If they could come up with someone, then that would make the eastern wing much better.

Distances seem far east of the Mississippi, but people travel those kinds of distances routinely in the West. The Pac Ten added Colorado despite the fact that it's 1000 miles from LA. Everyone thinks that BYU to the Big XII makes sense despite the fact that they'd be 900 miles from the closest member of the Big XII. Consider when Miami was in the Big East. Before the conference brought in VA Tech for all sports, Miami was 1100 miles from the closest conference member. How is UConn to the Big XII any worse than situations like these?

The travel isn't ideal, but it's being done elsewhere even in mid major conferences in situations that no one pays any attention to.

The bottom line is that if the Big XII does decide to expand and looks at who's out there and what they can do to improve the conference, UConn has the most to offer except for the distance. If UConn can live with the distance, shy would anyone else care? It's one game. And for the opposite division, it's one road game once every 4 years.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:59 pm 
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UConn to B12, it's doable for fb, and bb too, somewhat. It's the other olympic sports/women's sports where it takes more of a toll. That seems to be WVU's issue. WVU complained, for example, having a midweek bb game in Dallas, flying out at 5am, and having to fly back to Waco 48 hours later for another game.

For UConn, and others with ambition, the B12 is so much more money than the AAC. Indeed, if the B12 wanted to find a growing foothold in the east coast market, more than one or two schools would be needed to look more connected for it. Getting into Florida is the other factor.

UConn does have the advantage being close to NYC (and Boston for that matter) for flights. Another time zone impacts a little.

B12 keeps sounding very solid on the "10" thing.


Last edited by louisvillecard01 on Thu May 23, 2013 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Texas,Texas Tech,Baylor,TCU,OU and OKst are staying together.

Is Texas or OU or Fox interested in UConn or UC in the B12? no way.

While WVU maybe interested in UC or UCONN that really does not count for much.

Where is WVU going? Not to the ACC

Where could Texas Texas Tech and OU and OKst go?
PAC 12

The rest of the B12 could join the AAC in whole or part.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:24 pm 
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louisvillecard01 wrote:
UConn to B12, it's doable for fb, and bb too, somewhat. It's the other olympic sports/women's sports where it takes more of a toll. That seems to be WVU's issue. WVU complained, for example, having a midweek bb game in Dallas, flying out at 5am, and having to fly back to Waco 48 hours later for another game.

For UConn, and others with ambition, the B12 is so much more money than the AAC. Indeed, if the B12 wanted to find a growing foothold in the east coast market, more than one or two schools would be needed to look more connected for it. Getting into Florida is the other factor.

UConn does have the advantage being close to NYC (and Boston for that matter) for flights. Another time zone impacts a little.

B12 keeps sounding very solid on the "10" thing.


How was TCU going to do it in the Big East for Olympic sports? How did Miami do it in the Big East for Olympic sports? How does Colorado do it in the Big XII? It's not like this hasn't been done before. It can be worked out. Especially with divisions.

If it wants to expand, the Big XII has a choice to make - florida or the Northeast. I don't think they can do both. It appears to me they already made that choice when they opted for West Virginia, If they want to go to 12, Cincinnati & UConn make the most sense. If they want to go to 14 and get a stronger foothold in the Northeast, they can add Temple as a travel partner for UConn. There is no one else in the Northeast with a program that is ready. They could take another shot at BYU for #14. Or perhaps Memphis for another new market. South florida would give them another program with a decade of BCS level experience, but the they've got another island. I suspect they stay at 12 with cincy and Uconn if they expand at all.

UConn doesn't need NY or Boston for flights. Hartford's Bradley is an international airport with plenty of flights.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:15 am 
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What made the potential absorption of the Big XII North into the Big East were the basketball schools out that way. Adding the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Missouri was very conceivable because of schools like Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. TCU-BE, while a radical move for 2010, wasn't that terribly disconnected from the Big East through USF, and because of DFW's accessibility.

...but UConn might as well be Hawaii sitting that far out there. The closest school to them would be West Virginia or Cincy (assuming they were picked). It helps nobody, really.

At the very least, they should get Cincinnati for 11, then petition the NCAA for that CCG and other considerations.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:34 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What made the potential absorption of the Big XII North into the Big East were the basketball schools out that way. Adding the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Missouri was very conceivable because of schools like Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. TCU-BE, while a radical move for 2010, wasn't that terribly disconnected from the Big East through USF, and because of DFW's accessibility.

...but UConn might as well be Hawaii sitting that far out there. The closest school to them would be West Virginia or Cincy (assuming they were picked). It helps nobody, really.

At the very least, they should get Cincinnati for 11, then petition the NCAA for that CCG and other considerations.


So, UConn's distance of 500 miles from West Virginia is too far, but everybody and his brother thinks the Big XII should go after BYU which is almost 900 miles from the nearest Big XII school?

Okay, if you feel that the Big XII schools could join the Big East because of the proximity of the basketball schools, but that still begs the questions with regard to TCU, whom you also referenced in that explanation. If TCU could be brought into the Big East without the Big XII schools as was planned, despite being 1000 miles from anyone else in the conference, why can't UConn go in the other direction when they're half that distance from the nearest member of the Big XII?


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:42 am 
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BYU and Boise make a better package and would add some weight to the north division.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:03 pm 
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friarfan wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
What made the potential absorption of the Big XII North into the Big East were the basketball schools out that way. Adding the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Missouri was very conceivable because of schools like Marquette, DePaul, and Notre Dame. TCU-BE, while a radical move for 2010, wasn't that terribly disconnected from the Big East through USF, and because of DFW's accessibility.

...but UConn might as well be Hawaii sitting that far out there. The closest school to them would be West Virginia or Cincy (assuming they were picked). It helps nobody, really.

At the very least, they should get Cincinnati for 11, then petition the NCAA for that CCG and other considerations.


So, UConn's distance of 500 miles from West Virginia is too far, but everybody and his brother thinks the Big XII should go after BYU which is almost 900 miles from the nearest Big XII school?

Okay, if you feel that the Big XII schools could join the Big East because of the proximity of the basketball schools, but that still begs the questions with regard to TCU, whom you also referenced in that explanation. If TCU could be brought into the Big East without the Big XII schools as was planned, despite being 1000 miles from anyone else in the conference, why can't UConn go in the other direction when they're half that distance from the nearest member of the Big XII?


Because BYU was supposed to be a member back in the 90's?
Because Dallas-Ft. Worth is a major travel hub and Storrs isn't?
Because the Big East was pretty much a contiguous cluster from CT to KY, while the Big XII is a disjointed, unconnected mass?
Because while 500 miles doesn't sound far compared to 870 (TCU to Louisville), 1256 miles is ridiculous (that's UConn to ISU, the next closest school).
Because West Virginia really isn't happy, and would do anything to get into the ACC or SEC?

Take your pick. I think the AAC isn't going to last long based on the travel logistics...but let UConn figure that out when Temple is the nearest road game and the next nearest is southwestern Ohio...


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:33 am 
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More of the trying to fit square pegs into the round holes stuff.
The B12 is still sort of a forced bond anyway. That may be part of why the conference has been so cautious about expanding further.
There are NO LSUs'. Arkansas', Mizzous' back, Illinois', Northwesterns', etc., to fatten the conference contiguously eastward with prime flagships and partners.

If the Tulanes', Rices', Colorado States', and New Mexico's', are not good enough, east and/or west, then there's little choice but to stay as is.

To me, if 12 is the immediate goal, take Cincy. It offers some rationale. Then try to find a #12 that best fits. BYU with their large fan base and prior success, could be well worth it if it was not for the inflexibilities.


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 10:59 am 
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Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:14 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:35 am 
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fighting muskie wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Instead of finding Texas schools, how about these possibilities?

Adding Central Florida and South Florida:

Big 12 North: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Central Florida, South Florida, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Adding Cincinnati and BYU:

Big 12 North: BYU, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia
Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech


I like the version with the Florida schools. It gives a good balance between North and South by splitting up Texas and Oklahoma. Unfortunately for the other 8 members and any Big 12 hopefuls like USF, UCF, and Cincy I don't see the Big 12 expanding. I think Texas and Oklahoma will fight to keep the league at 10 members until the GoR is up and then either leverage the other members for even more concessions favorable to the Big 2 or dart to the SEC--by then things will have cooled off between the Horns and the Aggies enough that they can make peace. Alabama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East and the SEC West will be:

Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


If the SEC plans to expand Texas and Oklahoma, what would be the future of the other 8 schools of the Big 12?

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