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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:42 pm 
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I'm going to repost a thought that came up in a conversation on the MAC board regarding the academies and conference membership:

I have genuine concerns about Navy's success in the AAC. I think UConn, ECU, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Tulsa, SMU, and Houston will all typically field teams that are better than Navy's. The schools I think Navy would be at the same competitive level at are Temple, Tulane, and Memphis and the later two will both be playing in the west and Navy will only see them each every other year. To me it seems like Navy is setting themselves for a lot of 1-7, 2-6, and 3-5 conference records. Unlike other schools who can pad their OOC schedule Navy's OOC schedule is going to be two fierce OOC rivalry games against the other two academies, a loss to Navy per tradition, and a win against a FCS opponent.

I think both academies would be far better off playing 2 members of each of the non-Power 5 conferences each year (1 home and 1 away). This achieves a truly national schedule for Army and Navy as well as lots of winnable games which hopefully translates to winning seasons and trips to bowl games.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:07 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
I'm going to repost a thought that came up in a conversation on the MAC board regarding the academies and conference membership:

I have genuine concerns about Navy's success in the AAC. I think UConn, ECU, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Tulsa, SMU, and Houston will all typically field teams that are better than Navy's. The schools I think Navy would be at the same competitive level at are Temple, Tulane, and Memphis and the later two will both be playing in the west and Navy will only see them each every other year. To me it seems like Navy is setting themselves for a lot of 1-7, 2-6, and 3-5 conference records. Unlike other schools who can pad their OOC schedule Navy's OOC schedule is going to be two fierce OOC rivalry games against the other two academies, a loss to Navy per tradition, and a win against a FCS opponent.

I think both academies would be far better off playing 2 members of each of the non-Power 5 conferences each year (1 home and 1 away). This achieves a truly national schedule for Army and Navy as well as lots of winnable games which hopefully translates to winning seasons and trips to bowl games.


The service academies' biggest concerns are recruiting for the Army and Navy, and those schools play a national schedule to try to make that happen. Army joined Conference USA in the late 90s because it covered enough area to make that happen, but after not being competitive they went back to independence. Navy seems to be in the same situation right now, and was probably guaranteed at least one game in Florida, Texas and another big market each season (or at least I would think). Eventually when they can't always play out West or against Notre Dame and they miss bowl games, they'll switch back like Army did.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:41 pm 
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There's a fun little rumor that UConn might be working on football independence and some arrangement for the other sports into the Big East. SNY supposedly backing them up on TV...

Can't say it doesn't make sense considering the Big East NEEDING more top-level programs and not promoting mid-majors, and the AAC's utter failure to get better bowl tie-in's...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:48 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
There's a fun little rumor that UConn might be working on football independence and some arrangement for the other sports into the Big East. SNY supposedly backing them up on TV...

Can't say it doesn't make sense considering the Big East NEEDING more top-level programs and not promoting mid-majors, and the AAC's utter failure to get better bowl tie-in's...


Let's wait until this winter sports seasons starts, so that UConn can prove that the Huskies are still one of the best basketball schools (after the old Big East split/demise) with only single-year members of Louisville and Rutgers, and also with Cincinnati and South Florida; but without Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia and the other private schools of the Catholic-7. Within a few years to come, I bet the UConn would plan to join the new Big East for all sports except football (which would go to FBS Independece); otherwise, they'll stay in the American, or plan to head into the ACC to join former old Big East greats like Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:49 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
There's a fun little rumor that UConn might be working on football independence and some arrangement for the other sports into the Big East. SNY supposedly backing them up on TV...

Can't say it doesn't make sense considering the Big East NEEDING more top-level programs and not promoting mid-majors, and the AAC's utter failure to get better bowl tie-in's...


That is a curious rumor. I wonder how much truth there is to it. Getting admitted to the Big East wouldn't be that hard. FOX has been rumored to have pushed for the Big East to go to 12 and the additions of UConn and St Louis would give them their 6th schools in both the west and east. UConn still has friends in that league who would consider them an asset to their conference.

The big question is whether or not football independence is feasible. We're talking about filling a 12 game schedule here. UMass and Temple would probably agree to play them annually. Army and BYU both seem like good possibilities mainly because they need to fill dates in November while everyone else is in conference play. I don't know how the old eastern programs would feel about playing UConn--I'm not sure but out of Pitt, Cuse, Rutgers, BC, Maryland, and WVU some of those schools have to be holding grudges. For that matter the AAC schools probably would all have some pretty bitter feelings towards the Huskies if they left too.

I guess if UConn doesn't mind playing a really crappy football schedule they could make BE/fb independence work.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:31 am 
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It's clear that Uconn wants in the ACC, that we've always known. It's also clear that their best way to get into the ACC is to dominate the AAC. Downgrading to an indy status, where they will have no leverage for scheduling, a small fanbase (compared to BYU), splitting up their other sports into other conferences...I don't see that being a means to "showcase" themselves, to improve to the point that the ACC (or Big 12) takes them seriously.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:42 am 
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Quinn wrote:
It's clear that Uconn wants in the ACC, that we've always known. It's also clear that their best way to get into the ACC is to dominate the AAC. Downgrading to an indy status, where they will have no leverage for scheduling, a small fanbase (compared to BYU), splitting up their other sports into other conferences...I don't see that being a means to "showcase" themselves, to improve to the point that the ACC (or Big 12) takes them seriously.


Ask Cincinnati and West Virginia how dominating Big East football worked out for ACC inclusion. Cincy, especially. Louisville was nothing but a disappointment in that conference for football and was all hoops. UConn wasn't much different, and the ACC still took the Cards over the Huskies. They hold a grudge in the ACC like no other conference, it seems.

The cost of shipping the olympic sports around that frankenstein conference is going to turn UConn into UMD...they'll go broke and shutter some decent programs because they can't financially support them. Getting back with the Big East, I felt, was always the best and mutually beneficial thing for both sides to do. The Big East gets a basketball stud, and UConn keeps a healthy travel schedule.

Football independence...who knows? I don't quite get the appeal of going the ND route, but...stock up on the SA's, ND, BYU, and fill in a few games wherever else you can? Doable and probably more profitable than tying down to Temple and Tulane.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:37 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Quinn wrote:
It's clear that Uconn wants in the ACC, that we've always known. It's also clear that their best way to get into the ACC is to dominate the AAC. Downgrading to an indy status, where they will have no leverage for scheduling, a small fanbase (compared to BYU), splitting up their other sports into other conferences...I don't see that being a means to "showcase" themselves, to improve to the point that the ACC (or Big 12) takes them seriously.


Ask Cincinnati and West Virginia how dominating Big East football worked out for ACC inclusion. Cincy, especially. Louisville was nothing but a disappointment in that conference for football and was all hoops. UConn wasn't much different, and the ACC still took the Cards over the Huskies. They hold a grudge in the ACC like no other conference, it seems.

The cost of shipping the olympic sports around that frankenstein conference is going to turn UConn into UMD...they'll go broke and shutter some decent programs because they can't financially support them. Getting back with the Big East, I felt, was always the best and mutually beneficial thing for both sides to do. The Big East gets a basketball stud, and UConn keeps a healthy travel schedule.

Football independence...who knows? I don't quite get the appeal of going the ND route, but...stock up on the SA's, ND, BYU, and fill in a few games wherever else you can? Doable and probably more profitable than tying down to Temple and Tulane.


Versus shipping them to Omaha, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Indianapolis? It's not like the Big East is a bus league anymore, like it was when UConn joined. There aren't many travel cost benefits now when comparing the AAC and the Big East.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:10 am 
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Quinn wrote:
Versus shipping them to Omaha, Chicago, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Indianapolis? It's not like the Big East is a bus league anymore, like it was when UConn joined. There aren't many travel cost benefits now when comparing the AAC and the Big East.


Storrs to Philly is UConn's closest trip in the AAC. That's UConn's fourth closest in the Big East. Cincy's its second in the AAC outside of football, but its sixth in the Big East.

Half the conference is no further than DC. That is still a bus league most of the time. Not to mention, they have history. UConn and Villanova know each other. UConn and Temple? Not so much...

No matter what UConn does, geography isn't on its side if the conference isn't making them eight digits a year through media partnerships. When the footprint is that big and only chasing low seven's...that won't go for very long.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:37 am 
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Geography will change for football with addition of Navy in 2015.
Could Army join for football only?possibly
Could UMASS join for all sports? possibly


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:46 am 
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ctx48c wrote:
Geography will change for football with addition of Navy in 2015.
Could Army join for football only?possibly
Could UMASS join for all sports? possibly


I'm thinking the same thing. UMass would be a great addition, and to extend their rivalry with Temple, especially for football and basketball. But only time will tell. That way, the AAC will have 14 members (12 full, 2 football-only).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:13 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
ctx48c wrote:
Geography will change for football with addition of Navy in 2015.
Could Army join for football only?possibly
Could UMASS join for all sports? possibly


I'm thinking the same thing. UMass would be a great addition, and to extend their rivalry with Temple, especially for football and basketball. But only time will tell. That way, the AAC will have 14 members (12 full, 2 football-only).


Football isn't the problem. It's the ollies. Only UMass can really help that, and I think that's kind of where this rumor is born. If travel becomes too great, UMass becomes a good life-raft to those northern schools. Only, UConn doesn't want to work with UMass.

I'm sure Temple would love to have UMass. Those two pair well together. Just too many miles in between...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:20 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
ctx48c wrote:
Geography will change for football with addition of Navy in 2015.
Could Army join for football only?possibly
Could UMASS join for all sports? possibly


I'm thinking the same thing. UMass would be a great addition, and to extend their rivalry with Temple, especially for football and basketball. But only time will tell. That way, the AAC will have 14 members (12 full, 2 football-only).


Football isn't the problem. It's the ollies. Only UMass can really help that, and I think that's kind of where this rumor is born. If travel becomes too great, UMass becomes a good life-raft to those northern schools. Only, UConn doesn't want to work with UMass.

I'm sure Temple would love to have UMass. Those two pair well together. Just too many miles in between...


Here's a solution. If UMass plans to join the AAC, then UConn should either join the ACC or go Independent for all-sports.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Here is the thing about UMass and the AAC--it makes sense to some of us but it doesn't make any sense at all to the AAC. Temple is the only one championing them. UConn views them as a rival that is too close for comfort. As for the others, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to add a New England school when your other New England school is dying to leave. It would make far more sense for any future expansion in the AAC to come in the South where the bulk of the current members are--you have an upside-down horseshoe formed by Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU, and Tulsa, a pair of Florida schools, ECU, and then Cincinnati and UMass who are located on the fringes just outside of the south.

My money is on the AAC someday adding some of the new start ups in major cities. UTSA is probably the furthest along and best candidate but if the Georgia St and UNC Charlotte programs can win games and attract followings in their cities they could be AAC members a decade from now. Old Dominion and the Virginia tidewater region is another possibility down the road too.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Well, I never said it was a good rumor, and the financials make no sense. If UConn is going to go back to the Big East, that big payday they're set to receive from all departing schools and the conference name purchase is going to have to go somewhere else. Either the Big East gets some back, or some of those AAC schools will sue to recoup (as they should). They don't get that nice share for just sitting around a year, and it's not like the Big East totally needs them (I think they do, but they can exist as-is, even if as a mid-major).

I also don't see how SNY and Fox get along, or, rather, UConn and the Seton Hall-St. John's combo. The NJ-NY schools have a reason to be pissed about shares if UConn gets all of the SNY pot. Apparently, SNY is paying for football and some basketball.


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