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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:42 pm 
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fighting muskie wrote:
Considering that a home game against Notre Dame will only come for an ACC school once every 6 years it would be pretty audacious for the Irish to expect the ACC members to give up their home field advantage and move the games to NFL venues. the only schools that would really make sense for are WF and Duke since their venues are significantly smaller than Bank of America Stadium.

As for the Irish and the Catholic Big East, I was under the impression that it was the BE who extended the one-yr offer and the Irish who balked at the idea. I think that as long as ND can maintain its special status as an independent within the playoff structure and any "division 4" realignment the BE remains a viable leveraging tool whenever they are bargaining with the rest of the ACC.


I think the C7-ND thing was a one-sided conversation, and Notre Dame was the one doing the talking. It would have saved Notre Dame so much more money doing it that way, too, but the C7 were not interested in giving Notre Dame that kind of concession or benefit.

As for Duke and their stadium...it's getting a much-needed overhaul, including 10K more seats. The Irish would really have a set on them to ask Duke to put the game in Charlotte once those reno's are done. Personally, I hate the very idea of neutral-site games (aside from A-N and R3)...it's so arrogant to expect students and season-ticket holders to be happy about going to a game that requires even more money to see. And it's not a true home game!

Personally, I'd love to see someone in the ACC take it to the Irish and tell them they want their roadie in Indianapolis or Soldier Field.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:34 pm 
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I wanted to get the USA Today's schedule print of upcoming season games. There was a special section. But on the primary sports page, the headline was
"Southern Comfort". My first thought, well this is going to feature the SEC, or maybe an individual school such as Alabama or Georgia, or one that needs more help such as Mississippi State. Nawh, it was a front page and second page feature on Notre Dame with big pictorials. And of course, it was centered on Notre Dame's ambitions (and successes) with southern recruiting. Kelly wants to play Georgia for that sole purpose. On the special "D", not "C" insert though, Saban and Urban did get featured among the college football review.
It's so nice of USA Today to help Notre Dame out with prime featuring, once again, as the fb season kicks-off next week. Maybe USA Today owes Notre Dame something? I wanted my four quarters back when I went out for breakfast.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:34 pm 
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The ACC could do themselves a favor and focus on Basketball. That doesn't mean that they lose football, but their conference has some excellent basketball schools (Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Boston College) that struggle to keep up with the Joneses in Football. BC and Miami are smaller student body Catholic schools. I just think that if they lose more schools (UNC or UVA to the SEC) (Syracuse to the Big 10) or (Pittsburgh or Louisville to the BIg 12), they should replace their losses with schools like UConn, Temple, Villanova or Georgetown.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Hamburger wrote:
BC and Miami are smaller student body Catholic schools.


Welcome, Hamburger. Miami is private, but secular.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Article out of Raleigh with update on ACC/Maryland exit fee lawsuit at http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/09/14/ ... ht-in.html


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:08 pm 
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I was just self-analyzing about Notre Dame's status as a school sponsoring all sports in an athletic conference except for football (a.k.a. non-football all-sports conference affiliation status). And I had this thought, why is it so "cool" for the Irish to be a football Independent? And only facing 5 of the other ACC schools as according to the contract when Notre Dame joined the ACC (which started this season)? Is it because of pride or selfishness? Look at Miami (Fla.) The Hurricanes were mostly Independent all of their time since they began their athletics until they joined their first conference affiliation as an all-sports school (a.k.a. the old Big East). Why won't Notre Dame just have a taste of conference affiliation status for football, along with the rest of their sports? Ok, it might take out certain rivalries as an Indy, but they can keep the top rivalries on their out-of-conference schedule like the one with Southern Cal (USC) and Michigan and Michigan State. It sucks for a D-I FBS school who's an all-sports member on one conference for most sports while having football either as an associate member on another conference or as an Independent.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:26 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
I was just self-analyzing about Notre Dame's status as a school sponsoring all sports in an athletic conference except for football (a.k.a. non-football all-sports conference affiliation status). And I had this thought, why is it so "cool" for the Irish to be a football Independent? And only facing 5 of the other ACC schools as according to the contract when Notre Dame joined the ACC (which started this season)? Is it because of pride or selfishness? Look at Miami (Fla.) The Hurricanes were mostly Independent all of their time since they began their athletics until they joined their first conference affiliation as an all-sports school (a.k.a. the old Big East). Why won't Notre Dame just have a taste of conference affiliation status for football, along with the rest of their sports? Ok, it might take out certain rivalries as an Indy, but they can keep the top rivalries on their out-of-conference schedule like the one with Southern Cal (USC) and Michigan and Michigan State. It sucks for a D-I FBS school who's an all-sports member on one conference for most sports while having football either as an associate member on another conference or as an Independent.


I don't blame Notre Dame at all except instances whereby they could have misled as to their intentions. Not everything gets to be public. But I do point to all the enablers: The ACC (and the old BE), The BCS coop. group, the seat at the table with the Commissioners of Power Conference 5 (BIG, SEC, B12, PAC12, ACC again) and their play-off scheme, NBC, Bowl executives, individual universities (particularly Sou. Cal, Mich., Mich. State, Stanford, Purdue, Pitt., BC, etc.), pollsters, prominent advertisers, the interests of the school's control/power agents, referee contracting, sports reporters/journalists/media from print such as USA Today and sports commentators in TV, radio, as well as the Internet. They ride the popularity of the Irish to cultivate interest and profit. Even those that who do not like ND and see them as particularly favored, tune in to news about them and watch the Irish games, pulling for whatever opponents they are facing.

The only way to change the dynamics is for power conferences and schools to play hard ball about monetary distributions, scheduling, bowl agreements, and including their AD with their Commissioners' meetings. With the ACC giving ND a very respected home for bb and other olympic and women's sports, plus 5 assured rotaing games, finding a means by the 'system' to generate an incentive for the Irish to play conference fb looks even more difficult now. Even if ND's administrators and faculty see some value in playing conference fb and enhancing certain academic affiliations, their alumni, boosters, and student body have been long set against it.

There has been some recent statements, such as the SEC fb coaches taking a symbolic vote, expressing ND's needs to join a conference for fb. But that is a collection of unanimous opinion from a group that has no control of ND athletics, but could indicate a new stance that a particular conference is not in the mood to be as generous toward ND when all the powers that be gather to make decisions about future disbursements from the system.


Last edited by sec03 on Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:48 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
I was just self-analyzing about Notre Dame's status as a school sponsoring all sports in an athletic conference except for football (a.k.a. non-football all-sports conference affiliation status). And I had this thought, why is it so "cool" for the Irish to be a football Independent? And only facing 5 of the other ACC schools as according to the contract when Notre Dame joined the ACC (which started this season)? Is it because of pride or selfishness? Look at Miami (Fla.) The Hurricanes were mostly Independent all of their time since they began their athletics until they joined their first conference affiliation as an all-sports school (a.k.a. the old Big East). Why won't Notre Dame just have a taste of conference affiliation status for football, along with the rest of their sports? Ok, it might take out certain rivalries as an Indy, but they can keep the top rivalries on their out-of-conference schedule like the one with Southern Cal (USC) and Michigan and Michigan State. It sucks for a D-I FBS school who's an all-sports member on one conference for most sports while having football either as an associate member on another conference or as an Independent.


I don't blame Notre Dame at all. But I do point to all the enablers: The ACC (and the old BE), The BCS coop. group, The seat at the table with the Commissioners of Power Conference 5 (BIG, SEC, B12, PAC12, ACC again) and their play-off scheme, NBC, Bowl executives, individual universities (particularly Sou. Cal, Mich., Mich. State, Stanford, Purdue, Pitt., BC, etc.), pollsters, prominent advertisers, referee contracting, sports reporters/journalists/media from print such as USA Today and sports commentators in TV, radio, as well as the Internet. They ride the popularity of the Irish to cultivate interest and profit. Even those that who do not like ND and see them as particularly favored, tune in to news about them and watch the Irish games, pulling for whatever opponents they are facing.

The only way to change the dynamics is for power conferences and schools to play hard ball about monetary distributions, scheduling, bowl agreements, and including their AD with their Commissioners' meetings. With the ACC giving ND a very respected home for bb and other olympic and women's sports, plus 5 assured rotaing games, finding a means by the 'system' to generate an incentive for the Irish to play conference fb looks even more difficult now. Even if ND's administrators and faculty see some value in playing conference fb and enhancing certain academic affiliations, their alumni, boosters, and student body have been long set against it.

There has been some recent statements, such as the SEC fb coaches taking a symbolic vote, expressing ND's needs to join a conference for fb. But that is a collection of unanimous opinion from a group that has no control of ND athletics, but could indicate a new stance that a particular conference is not in the mood to be as generous toward ND when all the powers that be gather to make decisions about future disbursements from the system.


Then if Notre Dame wants to keep being FB-Independent, then I suggest that the ACC must find a non-football school within their area for all sports to at least balance it, even if no division alignment play would be involved. And it should be UMass for example.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:00 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Then if Notre Dame wants to keep being FB-Independent, then I suggest that the ACC must find a non-football school within their area for all sports to at least balance it, even if no division alignment play would be involved. And it should be UMass for example.


Notre Dame would love having some 'special status' company in the ACC so they would not be alone in this regard. But what the ACC may be hoping for, is that ND at a future point, joins the ACC in all-sports, then the ACC would pick up a #16 in all-sports for balance (that's assuming the ACC does not lose any more current members).

But the conference that lost Maryland, refused to take WVU (and maybe UConn), and gave ND that great deal, may end up with new regrets before it is all over.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:07 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Then if Notre Dame wants to keep being FB-Independent, then I suggest that the ACC must find a non-football school within their area for all sports to at least balance it, even if no division alignment play would be involved. And it should be UMass for example.


Notre Dame would love having some 'special status' company in the ACC so they would not be alone in this regard. But what the ACC may be hoping for, is that ND at a future point, joins the ACC in all-sports, then the ACC would pick up a #16 in all-sports for balance (that's assuming the ACC does not lose any more current members).

But the conference that lost Maryland, refused to take WVU (and maybe UConn), and gave ND that great deal, may end up with new regrets before it is all over.


That's the same 'special status' Notre Dame had when they were in the old Big East; but the Irish never had any 5 games against Big East opponents per year at that time. And Maryland shouldn't had left for the Big TEN. Rutgers should had joined the ACC instead, which would be like 15 all-sports members with football + Notre Dame.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:00 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
sec03 wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
Then if Notre Dame wants to keep being FB-Independent, then I suggest that the ACC must find a non-football school within their area for all sports to at least balance it, even if no division alignment play would be involved. And it should be UMass for example.


Notre Dame would love having some 'special status' company in the ACC so they would not be alone in this regard. But what the ACC may be hoping for, is that ND at a future point, joins the ACC in all-sports, then the ACC would pick up a #16 in all-sports for balance (that's assuming the ACC does not lose any more current members).

But the conference that lost Maryland, refused to take WVU (and maybe UConn), and gave ND that great deal, may end up with new regrets before it is all over.


That's the same 'special status' Notre Dame had when they were in the old Big East; but the Irish never had any 5 games against Big East opponents per year at that time. And Maryland shouldn't had left for the Big TEN. Rutgers should had joined the ACC instead, which would be like 15 all-sports members with football + Notre Dame.


If I was UMD, I'd leave the ACC, too, if the three programs added did nothing for football but strain matters, and only challenge the visibility of the programs where UMD was most competitive. Heck, I'm not entirely sure UMD is thrilled it will be tethered to Rutgers as much in the Big Ten, but at least it will have Penn State for football, Johns Hopkins for lacrosse, and basketball throw-downs with Indiana and Michigan State to make up for losing Duke and UNC.

Doing business with the Irish is going to eventually gut the ACC the longer Notre Dame claims independence, and the "what do we do with 14/15" is part of that complication. Enforcing GoR without a conference network will be another.

And, from the way JHU put it out there, it sounds like the ACC even turned them away from even that one-sport affilation. Can the ACC do anything right?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:18 pm 
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If the ACC goes the way of the former Big East, Notre Dame will be known as the destroyer of conferences. What if this happened? How long will it be until it happened? Who would go where?

Notre Dame would want to remain independent. The only way I see them not doing so is if there is a split from the NCAA and the big conferences deny Notre Dame unless they fully join a conference.

In the "force ND" scenario:
B1G: North Carolina, Virginia, Boston College, Syracuse (to 18)
SEC: Virginia Tech, North Carolina St (to 16)
XII: Louisville, Florida St, Miami FL, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Pitt (to 16)

Wake Forest is left for the American unless they rapidly improve to get into the XII
I have no clue about Duke (awesome basketball, AAU, football isn't shabby compared to previous decade or two but poor attendance) - maybe American if SEC or B1G doesn't bite? or drop football to FCS and put basketball in Big East?
Notre Dame - I could either the XII or PAC. B1G doesn't want that mess and the SEC doesn't want that arrogance (but either would probably take...)

What I hate about the big conferences is the lack of overlap with any conference and the PAC which leaves them in a state of no expansion if/until the XII is gone


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Wake Forest actually draws better than Duke in fb. Last weekend, Duke hosting Georgia Tech, drew a little over 21,000. And, that was a conference game vs a respectable program.
Wake drew several thousand more playing LA-Monroe.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:55 pm 
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sec03 wrote:
Wake Forest actually draws better than Duke in fb. Last weekend, Duke hosting Georgia Tech, drew a little over 21,000. And, that was a conference game vs a respectable program.
Wake drew several thousand more playing LA-Monroe.


How many tickets you sell at home doesn't matter to the Big Ten or SEC.

Wake has had some fb and bb success but they are #4 in the state of North Carolina...

Only California and Texas need 4 top level FBS schools (due to shear state size and overwhelming population) and even the state of Texas may only end up with 3.

UNC and NCSU are physically tied together through their administrations and Duke is tied to UNC in the more informal ways plus they are AAU.

If the ACC is torn apart Wake is the odd man out unless they do something drastic before the next major round of realignment in 12-15 years. But odds are that the ACC is safe and Wake will squeeze in while Iowa St, Baylor, TCU, and K State get cut.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:27 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
Can the ACC do anything right?


Agree with you on that. What the ACC did over the last decade is extract, in segments, a large group from the old and vulnerable BE. This included Notre Dame with another partial membership.
The ACC excluded schools such as WVU and UConn who would have 'given their all' for all-sports, in favor of negotiated terms with ND, as well as enhancing that private school look within.
Maybe the B1G told the ACC to keep their hands off Rutgers; but if Rutgers was seen as value to the B1G, why would it not have been for the ACC? Losing Maryland, even with their financial woes, clearly sent a message to the ACC that they can be on the receiving end in this expansion game.

The ACC has lost two charter members already. While the So. Carolina exit was over two decades ago, some of the ACC control issues then, have continued until today. While I believe the ACC is significantly more cohesive than the B12 in perceived commitments, they better improve their internal politics and networking. Much of what the old BE said about solidarity and strength, with all loving each other, can be attributed to the tone the ACC renders currently.

The question is: are the GoRs' in the ACC and B12 going to get tested? I think so within a few years.

The ACC wants to draw all the blood it can out of Maryland for leaving. I hope the ACC does not get all they demand out of this.


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