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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:50 am 
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The B1G had (has) no interest in Connecticut. Doubt they would expand again unless ND and Texas came knocking.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:47 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:

Rutgers gets in because it's a big school in between two big cities, has the AAU distinction, and the support of schools like Penn State, but on anything related to athletics, it might as well be in the wilderness.


This is something that should not be understated. Individual schools in the B1G, as in other major conferences, weigh-in on selections, particularly if there is an obligation to play the new addition yearly in all-sports. Penn State, for example, has a history with these schools, and certainly would have expressed preferences. Ohio State, Michigan, newcomer Maryland, etc., would all make individual preferences known. Even those schools in the west, have preferences as to where they fly to and who comes to see them, plus the projected revenue involved.

On the pure athletic criteria/history, there's not much to point to thay says Rutgers is superior to Syracuse. But on most of the other considered factors, Rutgers has a distinctive edge. East of Penn State, Rutgers comes the closest to looking like a B1G type-school, though most in the current B1G could show stronger athletic profiles.

The B1G's interest in Rutgers actually goes back many years. It started after Penn State was added; and an early study pointed to Rutgers as a potential recommendation. I believe the B1G waited on Rutgers for the opportune moment, knowing Rutgers had the baggage of limited success in priority sports.

The ACC never pursing Rutgers, or making them a preferred target, could be a real indication the B1G and Rutgers conveyed to the ACC that Rutgers was on a future path to the B1G. Rutgers kept telling their constituents to 'not to worry, Rutgers will be fine' while the ACC was systematically dismantling old BE all-sports.

Whether or not the B1G has over-estimated the future value of Rutgers, the B1G clearly wanted them.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:08 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
The Big Ten was/is looking at non-AAU schools like Oklahoma, Syracuse, UConn, Notre Dame, and Boston College.


Yeah, and some of those schools (BC and Notre Dame) don't see the AAU as being something part of their mission. AAU is a research designation. ND's an undergrad school. BC's not gunning after it, either. Syracuse saw that what it took to "keep up with the Jones'" was not something SU wanted to attempt.

...and that's why the AAU is overstated. Most schools aren't built on the mission of research intensity, or specific research metrics (kind of stupid how UNL was assessed, if one ever reads it) and just because they aren't doesn't preclude them from excellence or prestige. Dartmouth isn't AAU. Georgetown isn't. AAU will probably do nothing for them.

The Big Ten wants good, big schools with decent athletics. The only one that stands out now is Rutgers, but, again, that's no small school there in New Brunswick.


What brings in high dollar research grants from the federal government, corporations, endowments, and foundations, are having medical schools and engineering schools. The humanities, teacher education, social services programs, and most of the other liberal arts programs draw so much less, comparatively. In some states, for example, the medical schools have basically independent governance from the larger flagship university, and organizational criteria matters in reporting certain figures.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Great posts sec03...seriously I wish we had more like these.

speaking of medical schools...my school is getting one.

phase 1
http://impactnews.com/austin-metro/sout ... e-forward/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(take note of the Frank Erwin Center, home of UT basketball)

phase 3
http://alcalde.texasexes.org/2013/05/me ... in-center/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(also note that they announced the final fb stadium renovation to 'bowl' it in completely in this plan possibly pushing up capacity to 110K)

Not sure if this means anything as far as realignment but I found it interesting. Texas is already a top academic institution in the top 50 annually in US News and World Report rankings and has been ranked as high as 34 in various other lists, but the lack of a medical school was severely undercutting our ability to make the next jump into the top 30 with Michigan, Cal, and UNC and break away from Washington, Wisconsin, and Florida.

The med school should take off fairly quickly as Texas already has a great Pharmacy school on campus and has 6 top medical centers in the UT system including UT Southwestern (Dallas), UT MD Anderson Cancer Center (Houston), UT Medical Branch (in Galveston,), and UT Health Science Centers in San Antonio, Houston, and Tyler.

Also, the medical school will allow for Texas to eventually expand and add other related grad schools like Dentistry, Veterinary (take that Aggies), and even (crazy and this sounds) Marine Biology (in cooperation with the Medical Branch in Galveston).

But if you want to take anything from these stories, let’s just underline that THIS is the reason Texas is interested in joining the Big Ten or PAC16 and not the SEC or staying in the Big 12 long term as Kansas and Iowa State should not be UT’s closest peer’s in their conference. Texas want to be surrounded by other likeminded institutions which only the Big Ten and PAC16 can provide.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:03 am 
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sec03 wrote:
What brings in high dollar research grants from the federal government, corporations, endowments, and foundations, are having medical schools and engineering schools. The humanities, teacher education, social services programs, and most of the other liberal arts programs draw so much less, comparatively. In some states, for example, the medical schools have basically independent governance from the larger flagship university, and organizational criteria matters in reporting certain figures.


Most definitely. Back in the day, it was agriculture, math, and the sciences, and now it's medical schools and bio-engineering.

But in the case of the AAU, it's extremely subjective and fickle. Taken from AAU's very own site:

Quote:
Membership in AAU is by invitation and is based on the high quality of programs of academic research and scholarship and undergraduate, graduate, and professional education in a number of fields, as well as general recognition that a university is outstanding by reason of the excellence of its research and education programs. Information about AAU membership is available here.


No metrics, just hyperbole. Ever since the group saw UNL and Syracuse out of its ranks, a lot of attention has been given about just how arbitrary the AAU distinction is. When it comes to research monies, you'll see a school like Princeton, and small ones like Rice and Brandeis, well below non-members, like UAB, LSU, and the freshly ousted UNL and SU. UNL even pointed this out, among many things, to which the official response from the group dismissed without fielding. Not that things in UNL are rolling along just fine...word has it the place was a trainwreck when it came to things like faculty recruitment, compensation, and other competitive measures. Even if UNL was able to absorb the medical facility (which runs under a separate chancellor), who knows if the AAU would have kept them.

Med schools are where it's at, and Rutgers just got theirs in the recent RU/Rowan/UMNJ merger. Did it help RU out? Maybe. I think, for the Big Ten, the action items directed to Rutgers from the conference concentrated on athletic operating budgets and facility upgrades.

To some extent, this is why I think UConn and UMass are in a foot race. UMass has had its sights on the Big Ten-like operating model since the 90's, pegging itself to PSU, Rutgers, and Maryland. UConn might only now be doing so. But, UConn's in the better place, academically and athletically. I see both as the only remaining and credible "eastern" candidates for full Big Ten membership, with very minute chances at that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Forbes article with comments from Big Ten Commish regarding league realignment procedures and policies at http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer ... ecisions/2


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:51 am 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
Forbes article with comments from Big Ten Commish regarding league realignment procedures and policies at http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer ... ecisions/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


It's a good read. Funny that Delany feels about the terrible execution of the PSU acquisition but not the Notre Dame attempt in the 90's? How the Big Ten acquired Nebraska and Maryland sound a lot like how the Penn State thing went down, just with more confidentiality. Notre Dame made their potential move into a more transparent one. I doubt the Big Ten wanted it that way, especially since UMD's move was characterized as the polar opposite.

On another topic, there's some "chatter" that UConn's been making calls and visits to the Big Ten offices. I really don't see this one happening.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:39 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
freaked4collegefb wrote:
Forbes article with comments from Big Ten Commish regarding league realignment procedures and policies at http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer ... ecisions/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


It's a good read. Funny that Delany feels about the terrible execution of the PSU acquisition but not the Notre Dame attempt in the 90's? How the Big Ten acquired Nebraska and Maryland sound a lot like how the Penn State thing went down, just with more confidentiality. Notre Dame made their potential move into a more transparent one. I doubt the Big Ten wanted it that way, especially since UMD's move was characterized as the polar opposite.

On another topic, there's some "chatter" that UConn's been making calls and visits to the Big Ten offices. I really don't see this one happening.

Don't sleep on UConn, but they're likely just doing like Rutgers did and is getting info on what they need to do one day get the invite.

If the Big Ten never gets ND, I don't see them taking BC as their only non-secular school. Then and only then could UConn possibly get a looks a the New England market is probably too valueable to pass up.

That being said it won't be just UConn, but I could it it working if they can't poach UVA from the ACC and Kansas and Uconn are available. One one each side keep the divisional line up, though I think Syracuse is a better candidate and adds more simply because of the state of NY especailly when you combine that with their history.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:11 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
On another topic, there's some "chatter" that UConn's been making calls and visits to the Big Ten offices. I really don't see this one happening.


I could be wrong, but wasn't Boston College actively not allowing Connecticut into the ACC because they were regionally "too close" (or something like that)? If I were the B1G, I would think grabbing Connecticut NOW would be a poor idea if they could grab Boston College LATER. I feel like Boston College would be a much better school in the B1G. Of course Connecticut's basketball program (men and women) runs laps around Boston College's programs, but Boston College brings the Boston TV market, a strong hockey program (4 championships since 2000), and they have a B1G feel to me. I think Syracuse would be a better add than Boston College though.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:35 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Don't sleep on UConn, but they're likely just doing like Rutgers did and is getting info on what they need to do one day get the invite.


No doubt, but Rutgers was so far ahead of UConn when they started their conversation. Rutgers was freshly invited to the AAU. UConn's considerably further away (and, truly, UMass might be closer than UConn, and that's saying something). Rutgers was already a sizable school. UConn's small. Rutgers has an OCS, albeit a subject of issue; Rentschler's 25 miles away from Storrs. Rutgers was hardly attached to the Big East, but UConn's a detached appendage, it's old running buddies left them behind. Rutgers desperately wanted to be in the Big Ten. UConn wants to go there because the ACC won't touch them.

Also, getting UConn doesn't get the conference closer to programs it really wants, like UT, ND, UNC, and UVA. I think UMD and Rutgers further alienated the Big Ten from that cluster. You get UConn, Rutgers, and UMD because you know you'll NEVER get UNC and UVA. If any of this is legit, the Big Ten is closing the door on the ACC schools. Possibly for good.

If the Big Ten wants to invest in another northeastern/New England school, and it won't touch Syracuse or Pitt, they should try to farm UMass. It's the bigger school, it's pegging itself to Big Ten schools, it's after AAU, and the athletic department, while horribly late to the party, sponsors all the right programs, including ice hockey and men's lax. It puts them in MA for that Boston reach, not on the doorstep in CT. I will always prefer Pitt and Syracuse, but if they're never a part of this, wait for UMass.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:56 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
tkalmus wrote:
Don't sleep on UConn, but they're likely just doing like Rutgers did and is getting info on what they need to do one day get the invite.


No doubt, but Rutgers was so far ahead of UConn when they started their conversation. Rutgers was freshly invited to the AAU. UConn's considerably further away (and, truly, UMass might be closer than UConn, and that's saying something). Rutgers was already a sizable school. UConn's small. Rutgers has an OCS, albeit a subject of issue; Rentschler's 25 miles away from Storrs. Rutgers was hardly attached to the Big East, but UConn's a detached appendage, it's old running buddies left them behind. Rutgers desperately wanted to be in the Big Ten. UConn wants to go there because the ACC won't touch them.

Also, getting UConn doesn't get the conference closer to programs it really wants, like UT, ND, UNC, and UVA. I think UMD and Rutgers further alienated the Big Ten from that cluster. You get UConn, Rutgers, and UMD because you know you'll NEVER get UNC and UVA. If any of this is legit, the Big Ten is closing the door on the ACC schools. Possibly for good.

If the Big Ten wants to invest in another northeastern/New England school, and it won't touch Syracuse or Pitt, they should try to farm UMass. It's the bigger school, it's pegging itself to Big Ten schools, it's after AAU, and the athletic department, while horribly late to the party, sponsors all the right programs, including ice hockey and men's lax. It puts them in MA for that Boston reach, not on the doorstep in CT. I will always prefer Pitt and Syracuse, but if they're never a part of this, wait for UMass.


I like everything you said but UConn is alos pushing hard for AAU and was in (or just out of) the USN&WR top 50 rankings this year. But like UMass their lack of history in fb hurts, but unlike UMass they have better history in bball and are a recognized national brand despite having a smaller student body than UMass.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Hello all, I have been lurking here for a few years, and have finally decided to register and post. About Umass vs Uconn: Both schools are roughly the same size, however, Uconn has been making it into the top 30 public universities in US on a consistant basis, no lax, but we do have ice hockey. (I'm a bit of a homer as well.) But overall Uconn is the better school, what that means as far as realignment ,you got me.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:59 pm 
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CSNBBS MB thread discussing "unconfirmed" UConn/Big Ten rumors at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=657911


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:44 pm 
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freaked4collegefb wrote:
CSNBBS MB thread discussing "unconfirmed" UConn/Big Ten rumors at http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=657911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting, but I don't see UConn in the Big Ten anytime soon. More likely this is about getting BTN on basic cable throughout CT. Assuming UConn retains their tier 3 rights, perhaps they could sell some of them to BTN. Better still, set up some kind of scheduling agreement whereby UConn plays a designated number of OoC games in various sports against Big Ten teams each year, and televise all of them on BTN (surely football, m/w basketball and hockey would be good).

Big Ten gets:
1. BTN on basic cable in CT
2. Additional content for BTN
3. Exposure for Big Ten sports in CT market

UConn gets:
1. Big check from BTN annually
2. Exposure to BTN audience
3. Prestige of playing frequent games against Big Ten schools
4. Foot in the door?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:16 am 
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I don't doubt UConn's talking to the Big Ten. I'd expect they should. But I have to wonder that if they are pushing hard, is it because they know the AAC is a doomed venture, and that a few of the "chaser programs" that are keeping the value what it is are approaching greener pastures? The magic number for the AAC is 3.

Plus, is UConn going to pay back Rutgers for any of that departure money that UConn and some of the others are banking? I suspect Rutgers would be hesitant to support UConn without some sort of...ge$ture of good faith?

Quote:
I could be wrong, but wasn't Boston College actively not allowing Connecticut into the ACC because they were regionally "too close" (or something like that)?


I believe that's BC's official line. The unofficial one is sour grapes over being sued for leaving the Big East for the ACC.

In other news, Delany shares his thoughts on NCAA changes.


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