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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
wbyeager wrote:
I think Wichita State just wants someone near them. If Missouri State boogies for FBS, the Shockers become a noticeable geographic outlier.


Unfortunately, there isn't any other school from Kansas in the FCS or NFS (non-football subdivision) levels. The only ones are FBS level status (Kansas and Kansas State). Wichita State should also upgrade into FBS someday, if the Shockers plan to re-instate football after dropping it since the MVC quit sponsoring that sport.


At this point, ANY western program would help them just a bit...be it the unlikely, like Saint Louis and Denver, or the potentially unwanted, like Oral Roberts, WIU, or the Dakota State schools...

...still better than UMKC.


How about schools like Nebraska-Omaha? In case the MVC wouldn't re-instate football by absorbing the MVFC and UNO's plan to revive its football program, it'll be fit for the MVFC while competing its other non-football sports as an all-sports full member within the MVC. Might also help "representing-replacing" what's left in Creighton.


Certainly helps geographically, but it's another one of those system schools.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:18 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
The Bishin Cutter wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
wbyeager wrote:
I think Wichita State just wants someone near them. If Missouri State boogies for FBS, the Shockers become a noticeable geographic outlier.


Unfortunately, there isn't any other school from Kansas in the FCS or NFS (non-football subdivision) levels. The only ones are FBS level status (Kansas and Kansas State). Wichita State should also upgrade into FBS someday, if the Shockers plan to re-instate football after dropping it since the MVC quit sponsoring that sport.


At this point, ANY western program would help them just a bit...be it the unlikely, like Saint Louis and Denver, or the potentially unwanted, like Oral Roberts, WIU, or the Dakota State schools...

...still better than UMKC.


How about schools like Nebraska-Omaha? In case the MVC wouldn't re-instate football by absorbing the MVFC and UNO's plan to revive its football program, it'll be fit for the MVFC while competing its other non-football sports as an all-sports full member within the MVC. Might also help "representing-replacing" what's left in Creighton.


Certainly helps geographically, but it's another one of those system schools.


Well, I tried my best to idealize about the situation because that's all I can think of. Another alternative should be adding some schools from D-II (within the Upper Midwest) like the ones from the NSIC.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:31 am 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
I know these guys have wanted into Chicago, but I have to wonder what it means about schools like Illinois State and SIU, and whether the MVC's ranks will further thin in Illinois.

I'm glad they replaced a private school with another private school. I think it's bad news doing business with some of the system schools, as UIC is. They were chartered as "overflow" and secondary campuses, and in the shadows of the Big Ten, who have a tendency not playing nicely with the MAC and MVC, these conferences are smart to keep from further "dilution." Don't make it easier for the Big Ten when these schools with decent and long-running traditions work with so much less in terms of resources and support.

I'd love to see Valpo, and I think Detroit and/or Oakland would be alright, too, but that UMKC visit seems a bit strange.


President Bardo obviously was with the contingent that visited Chicago (and presumably Valparaiso). In the article it said he was leaning toward another school. He mentioned the other school's size, athletics etc. I'm only assuming based on him using the word "size", that he wasn't talking about Valparaiso. They looked at the UIC campus and came away impressed. We have a brand new, 7 million dollar baseball stadium going up (Loyola doesn't have baseball, which caused some anger among some of the Valley AD's). Baseball is the Valley's second sport. UIC has been to the baseball NCAA's, the soccer NCAA's (we finished with a 15-3 record in soccer last season). So I'm going to say the school he was leaning toward was UIC. By they way, UIC has an endowment of approximately 244 million, which isn't paltry to say the least.

It didn't hurt Loyola one bit that they have a huge endowment, that they convinced the committee that they are and will be spending money and that they are a private institution. The Missouri Valley, although wanting to expand into the Chicago market also wanted a private school. If they had gone with UIC, it would have been 7 publics to 3 privates, which would have caused a problem among the Presidents (also intimated in the article). This is one of the reasons why they will revisit expansion during the tournament, when presidents and councils get together, and discuss the feasibility of expansion to 12 teams and the possible addition of the 2 teams.

I still like UIC's chances, although the Horizon League is a good, underrated conference that's getting better and that, this season, is only 2 spots behind the Valley. It would be just fine if we stayed in the HL.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Wichita State is so solid in basketball...

What if they restarted their fb program and had that much success?? Where would they most likely be in regards to conference alignment...still in the MVC, SBC, CUSA, MAC, or where?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:30 pm 
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mozilla wrote:
Wichita State is so solid in basketball...

What if they restarted their fb program and had that much success?? Where would they most likely be in regards to conference alignment...still in the MVC, SBC, CUSA, MAC, or where?


I know, huh? Those Shockers are shocking us all, in mostly-impressive dominant fashion after last season's run to the Final Four, trying to put the MVC on the map of best mid-major men's hoops conferences since Butler in '09 and '10 back in their Horizon League days. Unbeaten in 20+ games, and maybe the no. 2/3 in the nation so far. Talk about great improvement in the making.

If football was re-instated, and if I was the AD or Staff Member of the school, I would keep Wichita St. in the MVC as a non-football all-sports full member, while having football compete as a D-I Indy (FCS for a year or 2, then to FBS status 2-3 years later), and eventually put like Tulsa did at their time in the MVC when it comes to success, etc. But instead of the WAC (which is not any longer a FBS conference), I would put them in either the MVC, the Sun Belt or C-USA.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:49 am 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Wichita State is so solid in basketball...

What if they restarted their fb program and had that much success?? Where would they most likely be in regards to conference alignment...still in the MVC, SBC, CUSA, MAC, or where?


I know, huh? Those Shockers are shocking us all, in mostly-impressive dominant fashion after last season's run to the Final Four, trying to put the MVC on the map of best mid-major men's hoops conferences since Butler in '09 and '10 back in their Horizon League days. Unbeaten in 20+ games, and maybe the no. 2/3 in the nation so far. Talk about great improvement in the making.

If football was re-instated, and if I was the AD or Staff Member of the school, I would keep Wichita St. in the MVC as a non-football all-sports full member, while having football compete as a D-I Indy (FCS for a year or 2, then to FBS status 2-3 years later), and eventually put like Tulsa did at their time in the MVC when it comes to success, etc. But instead of the WAC (which is not any longer a FBS conference), I would put them in either the MVC, the Sun Belt or C-USA.


I feel that with a quality fb program Wichita State would already be in C-USA or the American Conference by now. There is no way they would still be sitting in the Mo Valley with a well supported fb program.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:59 am 
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mozilla wrote:
ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
mozilla wrote:
Wichita State is so solid in basketball...

What if they restarted their fb program and had that much success?? Where would they most likely be in regards to conference alignment...still in the MVC, SBC, CUSA, MAC, or where?


I know, huh? Those Shockers are shocking us all, in mostly-impressive dominant fashion after last season's run to the Final Four, trying to put the MVC on the map of best mid-major men's hoops conferences since Butler in '09 and '10 back in their Horizon League days. Unbeaten in 20+ games, and maybe the no. 2/3 in the nation so far. Talk about great improvement in the making.

If football was re-instated, and if I was the AD or Staff Member of the school, I would keep Wichita St. in the MVC as a non-football all-sports full member, while having football compete as a D-I Indy (FCS for a year or 2, then to FBS status 2-3 years later), and eventually put like Tulsa did at their time in the MVC when it comes to success, etc. But instead of the WAC (which is not any longer a FBS conference), I would put them in either the MVC, the Sun Belt or C-USA.


I feel that with a quality fb program Wichita State would already be in C-USA or the American Conference by now. There is no way they would still be sitting in the Mo Valley with a well supported fb program.


I think the same way. But on my previous post (which I forgot to edit), I was about to put the MW (Mountain West). And if Wichita St. would be in the AAC, and with their current success on basketball, it might help out the conference's RPI. You agree?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:15 pm 
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ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:
I think the same way. But on my previous post (which I forgot to edit), I was about to put the MW (Mountain West). And if Wichita St. would be in the AAC, and with their current success on basketball, it might help out the conference's RPI. You agree?


If I read you correctly....

yeah, I could see WSU in the MWC. Knowing that AirForce wanted more schools that weren't huge and powerful in the conference with them.
I can't speak for MWC folks...who seem a bit particular about what schools they want to admit. But as far as I can tell...when you look at schools like UTEP, TCU and some of the eastern MWC(UNM, CSU, WYO, AFA) schools....WSU would fit in pretty well. I wouldn't call Kansas some huge mecca of recruiting or powerful markets, but, I believe there is still some meat on the bone there. And landing the third best school in a State is still a pretty solid land for a conference.

Umm, yeah....WSU would help EVERY conferences RPI, this year. They are undefeated!?!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Flamesmania wrote:
I still like UIC's chances, although the Horizon League is a good, underrated conference that's getting better and that, this season, is only 2 spots behind the Valley. It would be just fine if we stayed in the HL.


I wonder how Loyola will act toward the subject of another Chicago school in the conference, and a public one. UIC got a visit, so it definitely puts them ahead of many others who get speculation, and it's not like the support went away. But, the politics component may be real enough to spin certain candidates' trajectories awry. I'd imagine UIC > UMKC...but, now with Loyola, does another western program help keep balance out there? Is there support for a northern crawl (UWM or GB)?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:41 pm 
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The MVC also needs to keep in mind:

What will happen with SLU...will SLU need a new home if they get set out on an island in the A-10?
Will WSU want to move up....so, will they leave or not?
The SBC has made moves on at least two or three schools in the conference. Will anything become of that situation?
How will the private schools react to any of these situations. Will they push for more private schools?
And, what about fb. Will any new schools also play fb? And how will that affect the MVFC?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:08 pm 
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SLU doesn't need to worry, it's not like the BE will take Dayton and leave SLU on an island. If/when the BE expands SLU is 1st on their list. If there's no expansion then SLU is in the same situation they're in now which is a better A10 vs MVC where they're not on an island.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SLU doesn't need to worry, it's not like the BE will take Dayton and leave SLU on an island. If/when the BE expands SLU is 1st on their list. If there's no expansion then SLU is in the same situation they're in now which is a better A10 vs MVC where they're not on an island.


So many are just assuming with certainty that SLU and Dayton are givens as to filling the final 2 spots in the BE. I don't think so. If they were such "givens", they would've been announced along with Butler, Xavier and Creighton in the beginning to give FS1 plenty of inventory and in two good markets for college hoops to boot! St. Louis has just about as much current history as Creighton and is closer. While Dayton has tradition (not a whole lot of NCAA tourney history as of late), what with their name, UD Arena being the yearly host of the "First Four", and their similarities to the other Big East schools. These things, however, do not guarantee SLU and Dayton membership in the league.

My opinion is that the BE is going to weigh the option of adding a "public" school, namely VCU and another local school (with VCU), Richmond. Both are obviously in the BE footprint and both will bring an instant local public/private rivalry. Those are always good for a league (just ask the Horizon League and Detroit/Oakland or the ACC and Duke/North Carolina!). VCU has obviously had more success lately, than both SLU and Dayton and with the powers the Big East already has, it can wait on Richmond to shore themselves. Hopefully the wait won't be as long as it has been for DePaul.

If the Big East surprises most people and don't take either Dayton, SLU or takes neither, then you can rest assured that more huge changes will take place. I believe without VCU, Richmond, Temple, Xavier and Butler; St. Louis will have to decide if it wants to stay in a league where from year to year there will be a hodge-podge of leaders at the top...none of which will be a dominantly consistent power. Does St. Louis now want to stay in an Eastern-based league with no signature program? Will Dayton have second thoughts? You know the Missouri Valley AND the Horizon League will have their pans in the A-10 waters, prospecting for that bit of gold.

Of course this is all predicated on if they are not invited to the Big East. They are not sure things as most people think.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Flamesmania wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:
SLU doesn't need to worry, it's not like the BE will take Dayton and leave SLU on an island. If/when the BE expands SLU is 1st on their list. If there's no expansion then SLU is in the same situation they're in now which is a better A10 vs MVC where they're not on an island.


So many are just assuming with certainty that SLU and Dayton are givens as to filling the final 2 spots in the BE. I don't think so. If they were such "givens", they would've been announced along with Butler, Xavier and Creighton in the beginning to give FS1 plenty of inventory and in two good markets for college hoops to boot! St. Louis has just about as much current history as Creighton and is closer. While Dayton has tradition (not a whole lot of NCAA tourney history as of late), what with their name, UD Arena being the yearly host of the "First Four", and their similarities to the other Big East schools. These things, however, do not guarantee SLU and Dayton membership in the league.

My opinion is that the BE is going to weigh the option of adding a "public" school, namely VCU and another local school (with VCU), Richmond. Both are obviously in the BE footprint and both will bring an instant local public/private rivalry. Those are always good for a league (just ask the Horizon League and Detroit/Oakland or the ACC and Duke/North Carolina!). VCU has obviously had more success lately, than both SLU and Dayton and with the powers the Big East already has, it can wait on Richmond to shore themselves. Hopefully the wait won't be as long as it has been for DePaul.

If the Big East surprises most people and don't take either Dayton, SLU or takes neither, then you can rest assured that more huge changes will take place. I believe without VCU, Richmond, Temple, Xavier and Butler; St. Louis will have to decide if it wants to stay in a league where from year to year there will be a hodge-podge of leaders at the top...none of which will be a dominantly consistent power. Does St. Louis now want to stay in an Eastern-based league with no signature program? Will Dayton have second thoughts? You know the Missouri Valley AND the Horizon League will have their pans in the A-10 waters, prospecting for that bit of gold.

Of course this is all predicated on if they are not invited to the Big East. They are not sure things as most people think.


read up w/ the links to actual info on page 1 & 2 of BE section, here. SLU is 11. No one is saying Dayton is for sure 12. The info said that 2 of SLU, Dayton, Richmond, VCU will get in if/when they go to 12 w/SLU at the top. I think SLU/Richmond is the winning combo of who this board thinks the 2 will be if there was a poll.

If the BE doesn't expand SLU won't leave the A-10 for the 1-2 bid smaller market MVC. Your Horizion/future MVC? colored glasses are fooling you.

We just went through this whole argument a week ago on here.

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Last edited by Fresno St. Alum on Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:00 pm 
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I have read this thread, pages 1 & 2 included, but I still stand by what I said. Just like everyone else on this board and this site, I'm giving my opinion. It's based on what I've read, heard, figured out, who I've talked to, etc. That's all. It's not any Horizon/future MVC colored glasses.

As we have seen, stranger things have happened in this world of expansion/realignment (Maryland, Rutgers to the B1G? West Virginia to the Big 12?).

The Big East could flat out surprise and take nobody at all! Not likely, but still a probability and since it is a probability, it's still an option.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:46 pm 
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Flamesmania wrote:
I have read this thread, pages 1 & 2 included, but I still stand by what I said. Just like everyone else on this board and this site, I'm giving my opinion. It's based on what I've read, heard, figured out, who I've talked to, etc. That's all. It's not any Horizon/future MVC colored glasses.

As we have seen, stranger things have happened in this world of expansion/realignment (Maryland, Rutgers to the B1G? West Virginia to the Big 12?).

The Big East could flat out surprise and take nobody at all! Not likely, but still a probability and since it is a probability, it's still an option.

The some guys either here or csn board, I can't remember, seem to think if MVC loses say Missouri St. to SBC that the MVC may double downon Chicago taking you.

csn board and maybe here too I called Rutgers and Maryland for 13/14 if they moved to 14 which they did. That really wasn't strange b/c others said the same. WVU ended up strange b/c they never took Louisville & Cincinnati to go w/ them, so yeah they look out of place now.

But good question, what is the strangest move? Tulane to AAC? tv market guys may have been on board w/ them. How about UMKC to the WAC?

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