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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:12 pm 
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JMU more likely wants CUSA


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:41 am 
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Rumor, Liberty to the Sun Belt....http://csnbbs.com/thread-685410.html

JMU, you're making a big mistake if you don't have a MAC invite and Liberty takes your spot. in FBS.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:10 am 
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Fresno St. Alum wrote:
Rumor, Liberty to the Sun Belt....http://csnbbs.com/thread-685410.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JMU, you're making a big mistake if you don't have a MAC invite and Liberty takes your spot. in FBS.


The joke's on SBC if they force a good program who's only being overly cautious with their options for one who's utterly desperate to be somewhere, ANYWHERE, else than Big South.

On another board, I had to ask how legit this really could be: Georgia Southern, Appy State, and Georgia State...all schools from conferences who wanted no part of Liberty. Now? What gives?

You have to wonder...MoSU, EKU, and JMU...none of them are stopping by the Sun Belt, or does the SBC really believe that Liberty is better than any of them? I don't see it. Other than being in Virginia, which is a big deal, I just don't see it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:37 pm 
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SB must be desperate. With Benson and Hawkins guiding the ship it's understandable.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:29 am 
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OK to all the negative people out there that don't see Liberty as a good option. I have said it on multiple post here that either Liberty or EKU would the the next school added to the SBC and it is appearing more and more like it will be Liberty. Why is this so bad? I don't get people who are so against it! There are plenty of schools in FBS that are either Private Christian Schools, and no one says anything. Liberty is a school that has the eastern zone that SBC is looking for. Liberty has the money to make the move. They have great facilities and are on TV often. To me this the right move! I hope it gets done ASAP!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:55 am 
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hibbett2222 wrote:
OK to all the negative people out there that don't see Liberty as a good option. I have said it on multiple post here that either Liberty or EKU would the the next school added to the SBC and it is appearing more and more like it will be Liberty. Why is this so bad? I don't get people who are so against it! There are plenty of schools in FBS that are either Private Christian Schools, and no one says anything. Liberty is a school that has the eastern zone that SBC is looking for. Liberty has the money to make the move. They have great facilities and are on TV often. To me this the right move! I hope it gets done ASAP!


I have to agree with Hibbett on his statement. And to be honest, I believe that Liberty would be a proper candidate (like either EKU or Jacksonville St. or James Madison, etc.). The Sun Belt does expect to need a school in the Eastern side to even the odds when it comes to having the 12th member for division play (on most sports) and a GGC to sponsor (on football). Come to think of having money to make the move, hopefully in the future they will expand some of their facilities like the football stadium or the basketball arena (based on the requirements that the NCAA D-I FBS level states, such as 30,000+ for football or 5,000+ for basketball). However, hope the Liberty University staff would make those plans right before the end of June. The sooner, the better.

And just in case, once Liberty joins, and in case Arkansas St. and UL-Lafayette becomes next to be C-USA material, the Sun Belt will still have tons of work to do, but this time, by finding expansion candidates on the Western side (like the Texas schools of either Sam Houston St. or Stephen F. Austin St. or Lamar, etc.).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:19 am 
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Some thoughts on Liberty:

Liberty has the potential to be a great pick up for the Sunbelt. As a faith-based school they could potentially develop a small, albeit nationwide fan following. For a lot of folks they might not be their favorite team but one of secondary interest (i.e. Someone might be a die hard Sooners fan but also like to see Liberty win games because they're Evangelical) Any more television money isn't about saturation, its about your ability to sneak in and get a share of market. This could get Sunbelt games in markets that they might otherwise not air.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:26 am 
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If I'm a humbug, it's because of how they hit their ceiling in FCS in Big South, and how others ahead of them don't want to do business with them. Maybe it's because these other schools don't like doing business with them? I mean, this comes with calling a school to be an equal...can you work with them? Do you want to work with them? Because conferences like CAA, SoCon, and maybe even OVC don't want to, there's got to be some reason.

There's a lot of mistrust over that institution and the way they do business. Academically, they're likened to a diploma mill, and they are really spending money earned through that on athletics, all while questions begin to be raised as to the value of their degrees, cost to the student, etc. (and it isn't exactly the cheapest option out there). Not my personal opinion, just observations...

It seems like these other schools and conferences see something in them they don't like. And through those other rejections, they aimed higher and are hitting HARD. But, also, you had a lot of self-generating, the Dude-like rumors about their discussions with the Sun Belt. One-sided, unsupported rumors. Is this news legitimate or more like the other stuff?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:39 am 
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Liberty is big on volume and all kinds of endeavors to elicit student growth. Fair enough, but academic quality is not reflected in all of it. While being evangelical and fully religious affiliated is not necessarily a drawback in itself, Liberty is known for 'activism' that does not set well with folks, including many in the south, who not embrace their tactics and methodology as it relates to tolerance.

If the Sunbelt takes Liberty, it is desperation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:56 am 
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sec03 wrote:
Liberty is big on volume and all kinds of endeavors to elicit student growth. Fair enough, but academic quality is not reflected in all of it. While being evangelical and fully religious affiliated is not necessarily a drawback in itself, Liberty is known for 'activism' that does not set well with folks, including many in the south, who not embrace their tactics and methodology as it relates to tolerance.

If the Sunbelt takes Liberty, it is desperation.

Yep Liberty is half religious zealots and half University of Phoenix...neither of those still well with most schools.

Think of it this way, BYU is and should be in a Big 5 conference however their religious beliefs is primarily what has kept them out. Still BYU still has a chance to make it one day, but if they started lowering the value of their degrees by churning out tons of online programs they never have a chance to get into a Big 5.

Liberty ceiling was likely the SoCon, but they were having trouble even getting there. If they make it to the FBS and the SBC it will only be because of their determination to get their and the SBC's deperation to keep their pure E/W divisions and to get a CCG.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:02 pm 
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tkalmus wrote:
Liberty ceiling was likely the SoCon, but they were having trouble even getting there.


What does it say when a few years ago, someone like Coastal Carolina's name came up for SoCon consideration, and they laughed it off, dismissed it, and felt relief because they knew they wouldn't have to think about a school like that. Now, however, Coastal Carolina isn't so bad, compared to Liberty. That's SoCon and where Liberty fits into it today. Behind a divisively viewed Coastal. That, to me, doesn't sound like their ceiling.

Winthrop, Presbyterian, Coastal Carolina, FGCU (if SoCon wants to go for more basketball-only types), some of those OVC schools in TN and KY...those guys get in before Liberty.

I don't think BYU is their eastern equivalent, because BYU was actually wanted at some point. The tabernacle had to alter their mission to tarnish BYU to the PAC. They were close in the 70's. And, it's not like BYU wasn't wanted by the Big XII. Texas politics kept them out of the original 12, and BYU's own greed apparently kept them out of the last few rounds.

Liberty wishes it could be BYU. I think the closer equivalence is Oral Roberts, but ORU doesn't have football, so who knows where they could be if they did have it?

sec03 wrote:
If the Sunbelt takes Liberty, it is desperation.


Yup.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:40 pm 
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EKU should call Larry Flynt and tell them the situation. He'll front the money EKU needs to be ready now. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Gemofthehills wrote:
SB must be desperate. With Benson and Hawkins guiding the ship it's understandable.

Taking Liberty would not be a desperate act by the SBC, but merely the execution of their strategic plan, two key components of which are well known:
1) football CCG, which requires a 12th football school
2) georgraphically balanced divisions, which requires a sixth eastern school
JMU could have had that spot since shortly after WKU announced their departure, but they apparently don't want it, so you move on to the next option. If they fail to move on, then it wasn't really much of a strategy to begin with, and also would be a true sign of desperation.
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OK to all the negative people out there that don't see Liberty as a good option. I have said it on multiple post here that either Liberty or EKU would the the next school added to the SBC and it is appearing more and more like it will be Liberty. Why is this so bad? I don't get people who are so against it! There are plenty of schools in FBS that are either Private Christian Schools, and no one says anything. Liberty is a school that has the eastern zone that SBC is looking for. Liberty has the money to make the move. They have great facilities and are on TV often. To me this the right move! I hope it gets done ASAP!

As I see it, the only legitimate reason for rejecting Liberty is their very poor academic rating, which is due to two factors:
1) Faith-based curriculum: For example, in biology courses Liberty claims to teach both creationism and evolutionism, but if they spend half their time teaching creationism, then compared to other schools they have spent only half as much time teaching evolutionism. Because evolutionism is the standard against which they are judged, Liberty will not be rated highly.
2) Online education: Liberty has about 12,000 residential students and about 90,000 online students (and growing rapidly). It is difficult to measure the quality of online eductation, so it gets dicounted in the ratings. So once again, because the standard is based upon on campus learning, Liberty will not be rated highly.

Now many mainstream universities have expanded into online education, but they apply limits in some ways to prevent it from lowering their academic ratings. Because of #1, Liberty has no such restrictions, and since Falwell Sr. died in about 2007 they have put pedal to the metal for online eductation, growing it at a phenomenal rate. Falwell Jr. seems to be a far more aggressive businessman.

Translating into dollars: enrollment exceeding 100,000 paying annual tuition of $10,000 gives Liberty over $1 billion per year in tuition revenue. I doubt any current SBC schools will approach that amount - probably ever. It seems reasonable to assume that Liberty's growth rate will decrease somewhat, but if it doesn't they could have an enrollment approaching half a million by about 2020. Their athletics budget is already about $30 million per year and, depending upon enrollment growth, could double or quadruple. Imagine Liberty spending at the same level as some of the top P5 athletic departments. Could happen -- and much sooner than people realize.
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Liberty has the potential to be a great pick up for the Sunbelt. As a faith-based school they could potentially develop a small, albeit nationwide fan following. For a lot of folks they might not be their favorite team but one of secondary interest (i.e. Someone might be a die hard Sooners fan but also like to see Liberty win games because they're Evangelical) Any more television money isn't about saturation, its about your ability to sneak in and get a share of market. This could get Sunbelt games in markets that they might otherwise not air.

Agreed, except that the fan following is likely to be very large. It will be nationwide, and even global, but concentrated in the "Bible Belt," which is great for the SBC because for the most part Sun Belt = Bible Belt. Not only will this increase media coverage, as you stated, but should put a lot of fans in seats at SBC schools when Liberty comes to visit. Liberty would help the entire SBC prosper. In a sense, Liberty could be much like the service academies, BYU and Notre Dame. (In fact, Liberty's stated goal is to be for Evangelical Christians what Notre Dame is for Catholics and BYU is for Mormons.)
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If I'm a humbug, it's because of how they hit their ceiling in FCS in Big South, and how others ahead of them don't want to do business with them. Maybe it's because these other schools don't like doing business with them? I mean, this comes with calling a school to be an equal...can you work with them? Do you want to work with them? Because conferences like CAA, SoCon, and maybe even OVC don't want to, there's got to be some reason.

There's a lot of mistrust over that institution and the way they do business. Academically, they're likened to a diploma mill, and they are really spending money earned through that on athletics, all while questions begin to be raised as to the value of their degrees, cost to the student, etc. (and it isn't exactly the cheapest option out there). Not my personal opinion, just observations...

Firstly, Liberty is not a "diploma mill;" they are fully accredited.

Secondly, Liberty's business model tells me they have no ceiling. The NCAA has never seen anything like Liberty.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:01 pm 
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The only thing separating Liberty and Grand Canyon University is a tax-exempt status, and, like I said, based on others' not wanting to work with them, even if it is snobbery, these other schools don't want them as an equal.

No worries, though. Let those FCS upgrade projects see what doing business at the FBS bottom rung is like, especially if the SBC commissioner does his own thing to get a state represented in his conference no matter which school it is. It sounds like this is how Benson might play it, regardless of who's available. So be it, if that's how it's going to be.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:35 pm 
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The Bishin Cutter wrote:
The only thing separating Liberty and Grand Canyon University is a tax-exempt status, and, like I said, based on others' not wanting to work with them, even if it is snobbery, these other schools don't want them as an equal.

No worries, though. Let those FCS upgrade projects see what doing business at the FBS bottom rung is like, especially if the SBC commissioner does his own thing to get a state represented in his conference no matter which school it is. It sounds like this is how Benson might play it, regardless of who's available. So be it, if that's how it's going to be.

Let's not give Liberty or GCU a full pass here, yes there is smome snoobery but its not completely unwarrented.

GCU has only 1 graduate degree, a MBA.

Liberty has a few more but mostly concentrated in religious studies, teaching, & consuling and most of their graduate degrees are online as well.

Like it said a few posts back, the other 'snobby' universities are focusing on real research and improving the value of their degrees (many of which imporved by joining the SBC/FBS), while Liberty/GCU are simply focused on making money and making graduates (and while that last one sounds good many would preface that with the term 'under qualified'). These universities don't match up, none of these schools are going to want to partner with Liberty/GCU in athletics because it tells less knowledgebale people that a degree from Liberty is similar in value to a degree from Georgia State or any other SBC despite a near 300 point SAT gap between the average students of Liberty and the rest of the SBC.

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