Horizon League Expansion

Flamesmania · **Joined:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 am **Posts:** 16

I forgot to mention earlier that NKU already has ties somewhat with the Horizon League. Northern Kentucky's president, Geoffrey Mearns,used to be a high ranking official at Cleveland State, while their new Athletic Director, Ken Bothof is also the recent ex-AD of Green Bay.

I would almost swear (and that's just me) that Commissioner Jon LeCrone or one of the HL presidents have already made a cursory call to President Mearns, Ken Bothof or both.

Fresno St. Alum · **Joined:** Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:56 pm **Posts:** 2803

Flamesmania wrote:

I forgot to mention earlier that NKU already has ties somewhat with the Horizon League. Northern Kentucky's president, Geoffrey Mearns,used to be a high ranking official at Cleveland State, while their new Athletic Director, Ken Bothof is also the recent ex-AD of Green Bay.

I would almost swear (and that's just me) that Commissioner Jon LeCrone or one of the HL presidents have already made a cursory call to President Mearns, Ken Bothof or both.

If so NKU should have already asked where do we sign and how fast can you take us.

ASun and WAC should be worried about NKU(HL), Kennesaw St.(Big South, SoCon), and UTPA(SLC) leaving for other conferences. They should be expanding now before they're both sitting there w/ 7 conf. members.

Flamesmania · **Joined:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 am **Posts:** 16

I think the A-Sun should really be concerned about NKU and Kennesaw State possibly leaving. With Mercer and ETSU leaving, the Atlantic Sun will be down to 8 teams as far as the fans are concerned, but according to the NCAA, they will be down to 7 teams because of Northern Kentucky's Division I probationary status. So if Kennesaw State leaves, the A-Sun is now down to 6 NCAA Div I teams and in danger of losing their Automatic Qualifier.

If the Horizon League doesn't snatch NKU up for the '14-'15 season, it most surely will extend an invitation as soon as the probation period is up for the '16-'17 season.

Fresno St. Alum · **Joined:** Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:56 pm **Posts:** 2803

Flamesmania wrote:

I think the A-Sun should really be concerned about NKU and Kennesaw State possibly leaving. With Mercer and ETSU leaving, the Atlantic Sun will be down to 8 teams as far as the fans are concerned, but according to the NCAA, they will be down to 7 teams because of Northern Kentucky's Division I probationary status. So if Kennesaw State leaves, the A-Sun is now down to 6 NCAA Div I teams and in danger of losing their Automatic Qualifier.

If the Horizon League doesn't snatch NKU up for the '14-'15 season, it most surely will extend an invitation as soon as the probation period is up for the '16-'17 season.

The WAC is even worse off they'll be down to 8 next year w/ only 7 qualifiers since GCU would only be in yr 2 provisional. Plus the D-II pool willing to move D-I out west is far shallower than the southeast D-II pool. If UTPA gets picked up by the SLC, the WAC gets a 2 yr waiver(is that still the rule)? I think the provisional went from 1+4 to just 4 yrs.

Flamesmania · **Joined:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 am **Posts:** 16

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

The WAC is even worse off they'll be down to 8 next year w/ only 7 qualifiers since GCU would only be in yr 2 provisional. Plus the D-II pool willing to move D-I out west is far shallower than the southeast D-II pool. If UTPA gets picked up by the SLC, the WAC gets a 2 yr waiver(is that still the rule)? I think the provisional went from 1+4 to just 4 yrs.

I thought New Mexico State AND Idaho were leaving the WAC. They're going to need to be on the hunt for more schools, and desperately as they will be down to just 6 qualifiers as Grand Canyon is still in year 2 of provisional. Since Kansas City has a new athletic director since they moved to the WAC, she just might reevaluate the move and deem it necessary to try to get back into the Summit. If that happens, Chicago State becomes the lone easternmost team in the conference and travel costs will begin to weigh on that program (all speculation on my part), not to mention the league could fall to 5 qualifiers and be in danger of disbanding, if indeed UMKC moves on.

Chicago State is probably still holding out hope in the backs of their minds of getting an invite to the Horizon League (one of the reasons they went independent a few years ago).

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:43 am

Flamesmania wrote:

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

The WAC is even worse off they'll be down to 8 next year w/ only 7 qualifiers since GCU would only be in yr 2 provisional. Plus the D-II pool willing to move D-I out west is far shallower than the southeast D-II pool. If UTPA gets picked up by the SLC, the WAC gets a 2 yr waiver(is that still the rule)? I think the provisional went from 1+4 to just 4 yrs.

I thought New Mexico State AND Idaho were leaving the WAC. They're going to need to be on the hunt for more schools, and desperately as they will be down to just 6 qualifiers as Grand Canyon is still in year 2 of provisional. Since Kansas City has a new athletic director since they moved to the WAC, she just might reevaluate the move and deem it necessary to try to get back into the Summit. If that happens, Chicago State becomes the lone easternmost team in the conference and travel costs will begin to weigh on that program (all speculation on my part), not to mention the league could fall to 5 qualifiers and be in danger of disbanding, if indeed UMKC moves on.

Chicago State is probably still holding out hope in the backs of their minds of getting an invite to the Horizon League (one of the reasons they went independent a few years ago).

Nope, ONLY Idaho has planned to leave the WAC to start off next season by re-joining the Big Sky. I truly and hopefully wish that New Mexico State would do the same eventually. But if that happens, then the WAC will be more than in serious jeopardy to look for any members within the WAC's geographic footprint; even if UMKC plans on re-joining the Summit or not.

Flamesmania · **Joined:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 am **Posts:** 16

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

I'd like to see you guys get Belmont so that N.Alabama could replace them in the OVC. NKU works too, ASC will need to scramble to find an 8th member to replace them. Really they should already be adding D-II members. KSU is a flight risk already fb only in Big South. NKU has been talked about to the HL for a while.

Well, that could be a possibility. The OVC Presidents have already talked about adding North Alabama.
Here's an article I read from an EKU newspaper, The Eastern Progress:

By WESLEY ROBINSON
wesley_robinson28@mymail.eku.edu

Eastern’s Board of Regents didn’t make any decisions, but it laid the foundation for the university’s future Tuesday, including the possibility of jumping into big time football.

The Board met with Eastern’s administration to discuss university business but did not make any decisions during its retreat in Frankfort. One of major points of discussion the benefits of moving from Football Championship Subdivision Football to Football Bowl Subdivision.

QUINN EDIT:

PLEASE PROVIDE LINK TO ARTICLE, DO NOT COPY/PASTE OTHERS ORIGINAL MATERIAL. THANKS.

Here is the link: http://www.easternprogress.com/2014/02/26/board-hears-case-for-big-time-football/

Flamesmania · **Joined:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 am **Posts:** 16

Fresno St. Alum wrote:

I'd like to see you guys get Belmont so that N.Alabama could replace them in the OVC. NKU works too, ASC will need to scramble to find an 8th member to replace them. Really they should already be adding D-II members. KSU is a flight risk already fb only in Big South. NKU has been talked about to the HL for a while.

Belmont might not be that much of a stretch. Belmont soccer has joined the Horizon League as an affiliate because the OVC doesn't offer men's soccer as a sponsored sport. In addition to being an affiliate, Belmont and the Horizon League have a four year agreement to schedule games between Belmont and 6 Horizon League schools in the sports of Men's and Women's basketball, Baseball, Softball, Volleyball and Women's Soccer.

Most of us in the HL are speculating that this is a test run by both Belmont and the HL to see how travel costs, logistics and compatibility work out. The speculation is that after four years Belmont will either accept an invite to the Horizon League in all sports or either decline an offer and the Soccer affiliation will end. It's not like the HL needs another soccer team to keep its soccer AQ in place anyway. It already has 8 teams, with UIC and Milwaukee both being ranked at one time or another last season.

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:38 am

I wonder if there are any rumors or such related with any speculation of the Horizon League & the Summit League of merging together to become a better Midwestern basketball-spekked all-sports conference. I still think that IUPUI & IPFW should eventually be in the Horizon, and Western Illinois should be in the OVC, while the Dakota schools with Denver and UN-Omaha should find a few D-II schools from the Upper Midwest to form a new sub-regional conference.

robconstant · **Joined:** Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:34 pm **Posts:** 36

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

I wonder if there are any rumors or such related with any speculation of the Horizon League & the Summit League of merging together to become a better Midwestern basketball-spekked all-sports conference. I still think that IUPUI & IPFW should eventually be in the Horizon, and Western Illinois should be in the OVC, while the Dakota schools with Denver and UN-Omaha should find a few D-II schools from the Upper Midwest to form a new sub-regional conference.

I can't see that easily happening. The quality of basketball would stay about the same, travel costs would go up for most schools and they would also lose money by losing an auto bid and other revenues from NCAA tournaments. There still wouldn't be enough schools for the merger to sponsor football. While I can see benefits of stability for both conferences and better markets and facilities being around for both conferences, there's just no financial incentive.

tkalmus · **Joined:** Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:40 pm **Posts:** 1406

robconstant wrote:

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

I wonder if there are any rumors or such related with any speculation of the Horizon League & the Summit League of merging together to become a better Midwestern basketball-spekked all-sports conference. I still think that IUPUI & IPFW should eventually be in the Horizon, and Western Illinois should be in the OVC, while the Dakota schools with Denver and UN-Omaha should find a few D-II schools from the Upper Midwest to form a new sub-regional conference.

I can't see that easily happening. The quality of basketball would stay about the same, travel costs would go up for most schools and they would also lose money by losing an auto bid and other revenues from NCAA tournaments. There still wouldn't be enough schools for the merger to sponsor football. While I can see benefits of stability for both conferences and better markets and facilities being around for both conferences, there's just no financial incentive.

Exactly...conferences don't "merge" when both have autobids to the tournament as there is little to no benefit. Best you could see would be them working together on a scheduling agreement or sponsor other sports that they may not have enough members to qualify for autobids like Football, M Soccer, Baseball, LAX, and possibly jointly negotiating a media deal (like CUSA/MWC were about to do).

If neither conference is in danger of losing its NCAA tournament bid, then why take two 8 team conferences with tournament bids and merge into a single 16 team conference with only 1 tournament bid? The only "merger" you might see is if the Horizon just gets obliterated (say MVC decides to expand to 12 after losing Wichita St and Missouri St) then maybe we could see a merger out of necessity...but even then it would benefit everyone to just add North Dakota, UMKC, Chicago St, NKU and Lipscomb and a couple of D2 upgrades to the mix and keep both bids separately thus giving those schools more access to the tournament in addition to further stability.

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:19 am

tkalmus wrote:

robconstant wrote:

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

I wonder if there are any rumors or such related with any speculation of the Horizon League & the Summit League of merging together to become a better Midwestern basketball-spekked all-sports conference. I still think that IUPUI & IPFW should eventually be in the Horizon, and Western Illinois should be in the OVC, while the Dakota schools with Denver and UN-Omaha should find a few D-II schools from the Upper Midwest (and now North Dakota) to form a new sub-regional conference.

I can't see that easily happening. The quality of basketball would stay about the same, travel costs would go up for most schools and they would also lose money by losing an auto bid and other revenues from NCAA tournaments. There still wouldn't be enough schools for the merger to sponsor football. While I can see benefits of stability for both conferences and better markets and facilities being around for both conferences, there's just no financial incentive.

Exactly...conferences don't "merge" when both have autobids to the tournament as there is little to no benefit. Best you could see would be them working together on a scheduling agreement or sponsor other sports that they may not have enough members to qualify for autobids like Football, M Soccer, Baseball, LAX, and possibly jointly negotiating a media deal (like CUSA/MWC were about to do).

If neither conference is in danger of losing its NCAA tournament bid, then why take two 8 team conferences with tournament bids and merge into a single 16 team conference with only 1 tournament bid? The only "merger" you might see is if the Horizon just gets obliterated (say MVC decides to expand to 12 after losing Wichita St and Missouri St) then maybe we could see a merger out of necessity...but even then it would benefit everyone to just add North Dakota, UMKC, Chicago St, NKU and Lipscomb and a couple of D2 upgrades to the mix and keep both bids separately thus giving those schools more access to the tournament in addition to further stability.

I NEVER said that they should be a 16-team league. Hadn't you guys closely and carefully read my post? The ones I'm specifying are in bold. P.S.: I truly WISH and HOPE that North Dakota joins with its other Dakota brother schools, whether UND goes to the Summit OR the other 3 schools join UND. Besides, that's the only think I can think of this moment.

Anyways, I can understand both leagues want to keep alive their hopes as "stable conferences". But staying at 8 or 9 ain't the only option, to make themselves look like the A-Sun and the newly-re-branded WAC. Why not the two leagues plan to expand some members to at least 12 and a chance to add football (if met by the FCS requirements)? Speaking of expansion and candidates, any of you guys have thought of some samples for all of those 3 Midwest conferences (Horizon, Summit & MVC)? Because I still haven't yet, sadly.

mozilla · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:23 am

ncaanopaawaa2000 wrote:

I wonder if there are any rumors or such related with any speculation of the Horizon League & the Summit League of merging together to become a better Midwestern basketball-spekked all-sports conference. I still think that IUPUI & IPFW should eventually be in the Horizon, and Western Illinois should be in the OVC, while the Dakota schools with Denver and UN-Omaha should find a few D-II schools from the Upper Midwest (and now North Dakota) to form a new sub-regional conference.

I NEVER said that they should be a 16-team league. Hadn't you guys closely and carefully read my post? The ones I'm specifying are in bold. P.S.: I truly WISH and HOPE that North Dakota joins with its other Dakota brother schools, whether UND goes to the Summit OR the other 3 schools join UND. Besides, that's the only think I can think of this moment.

Anyways, I can understand both leagues want to keep alive their hopes as "stable conferences". But staying at 8 or 9 ain't the only option, to make themselves look like the A-Sun and the newly-re-branded WAC. Why not the two leagues plan to expand some members to at least 12 and a chance to add football (if met by the FCS requirements)? Speaking of expansion and candidates, any of you guys have thought of some samples for all of those 3 Midwest conferences (Horizon, Summit & MVC)? Because I still haven't yet, sadly.

There are a few issues with some of this....

1. The Big Sky won't grab three more fb schools. Their conference is full, already.
2. I doubt the OVC will want another school in Illinois that isn't bringing a fb program with them. The OVC is one short in fb...so, no need to bring in another Oly program.
3. IUPUI, hasn't done squat in bb in quite some time. So, why add them to the Horizon?
4. Will Denver and ORU want to be in a conference with a bunch of DII schools? ORU already left the SLC because of a group of DII schools joining.

Anyway....I agree with the idea of expansion....but, you can't just shake everything up...and expect all the schools to just fall in line.

According to the 'Grid'....UM St. Louis, could be ready at some point. Though, I'm not too sure how recently the 'Grid' was updated. Also, Belarmine, Southern Indiana, for bb schools with Lindenwood, and C. Oklahoma could be fb call-ups sometime in the future.

ncaanopaawaa2000 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:12 am

mozilla wrote:

There are a few issues with some of this....

1. The Big Sky won't grab three more fb schools. Their conference is full, already. <--- Realistically, you're right; unless 3 of those schools get ready to upgrade to FBS. Otherwise, have North Dakota, with Northern Colorado and/or the return of Southern Utah, to the Summit.
2. I doubt the OVC will want another school in Illinois that isn't bringing a fb program with them. The OVC is one short in fb...so, no need to bring in another Oly program. <--- Wait, Western Illinois isn't football-sponsored? Of course they are, and will revive the rivalry with Eastern Illinois on most sports too. Plus, the OVC needs Morehead State back from "bogus" non-scholarship fb mode.
3. IUPUI, hasn't done squat in bb in quite some time. So, why add them to the Horizon? <--- Good point, but I thought it was an interesting option, just for other sports' successes and not only basketball.
4. Will Denver and ORU want to be in a conference with a bunch of DII schools? ORU already left the SLC because of a group of DII schools joining. <--- Good point. It's a no-go.

Anyway....I agree with the idea of expansion....but, you can't just shake everything up...and expect all the schools to just fall in line. <--- Then why all 3 of those conferences are slacking? Just like the WAC and the A-Sun, they must act soon. When? Maybe a year or two.

According to the 'Grid'....UM St. Louis, could be ready at some point. Though, I'm not too sure how recently the 'Grid' was updated. Also, Belarmine, Southern Indiana, for bb schools with Lindenwood, and C. Oklahoma could be fb call-ups sometime in the future.

See most of my responses in garnet red.

mozilla · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:30 am

Good responses.

Though, why would W. Illinois leave the MVFC to go to the OVC? Shouldn't they shot for the Horizon or full membership in the MVC before heading down to the OVC? **Also, ...wasn't the Illinois legislature going to make a bum rush to get their schools in higher positions...or something like that?

I think that IUPUI is a good candidate...just not at the top. Horizon top candidates could be IUPU Fort Wayne, Northern Kentucky, maybe Robert Morris in Pittsburg, SIU Edwardsville, W. Illinois...something like that.

The OVC was looking into N. Alabama..so said E. Ky's AD(or someone similar).

Horizon League Expansion

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